EP 7 Parenting Partners: Navigating the Mental Load in Your Relationship
This conversation explores the journey of navigating parenthood and finding balance as a couple. In this conversation, Jarrod and Nikki discuss the importance of communication and understanding in their relationship. They talk about the challenges they face as individuals and as partners, including managing their emotions, supporting each other's needs, and dealing with the mental load of motherhood and fatherhood. They emphasize the need for honesty, vulnerability, and active listening in order to maintain a strong connection. They also highlight the importance of reconnection and repair after periods of separation or stress. Overall, they stress the importance of open and ongoing communication in building a successful partnership.
Takeaways
Balancing roles and responsibilities in a relationship is crucial for a healthy partnership.
The mental load of parenting can be overwhelming, and it is important to provide emotional support to each other.
Shared goals and values are essential for navigating the challenges of parenthood.
Societal expectations and past experiences can influence parenting dynamics.
Finding balance as a couple requires open communication and understanding. Open and honest communication is crucial in a relationship
Understanding and supporting each other's needs is essential
Managing emotions and the mental load of parenthood can be challenging
Reconnection and repair are important after periods of separation or stress
Episode Transcript:
Jarrod Sammet (00:03.638)
Cheers. This has coffee. Good spike it with something. This has coffee in it. What time is it? It's probably like not over dinner. It is like Lennar time. Lennar 245 kids are gone. Yeah. Kids are at the in-laws. I know. We thought we were gonna be so much more productive today. Yeah. We said all this looks good. Well, we are in our
beginning stages of our podcast studio. We have three lights. Three lights. One, two, three, four behind you. But we don't like we're going to get the little things. And we just don't know if it looks good. I think we just put them in random places. But I feel like we look pretty good. Awesome. Recovery from a cold. Yeah. So bear with me. Bear with her. We have dreams and ideas, but. Yeah, this is a start.
We wanted to be on video and we did it. So we accomplished a goal. Yeah. I really think it's so important because it feels, at least for people like me, maybe not like for you, because you are whatever you are. What does that even mean? Oh, you just, okay. But like for people like me who are down on earth, it's like, it's like, I see what I want, but it feels.
so far away or it feels like I'm not there yet and it's frustrating rather than looking at it like look what I did instead of it's like But your mood shifted because you were really frustrated probably an hour and a half two hours ago because we couldn't figure it out. But I'm that's typically like me who I know but that's good but then we had some ideas we got creative. Yeah. Right. We shifted a whole room and we're here we're doing it figured out the video we've been trying for like
probably a month, three weeks to a month to figure this out. First time, yeah, like, but more like first time the recording didn't work. They didn't like the lighting. They didn't like the video. And they were like, well, now what do we do? Yeah. So we actually got to a point where we know the video is gonna sound good. We hope because we're using our awesome interface we bought in February that we've never used. Got new software. Right. To record this.
Jarrod Sammet (02:20.874)
Yeah, I mean, it's the question that I asked you is, is this fun? Is it for fun? Or is it? Yes. Yeah, I think it's going to really to celebrate. I'm excited to see how it it's funny because you'll be nostalgic, not you, but like, all be nostalgic of once this is what I envisioned it to be.
I'll be like, remember when we had like lights hanging on a wall? Well, that's the point. I know it's cool. It's the step. This is the fun part is the journey. Yeah. And I will say I was thinking about talking about today was you mentioned we've had things for like a very long time, but we haven't been able to get to them and things have come up. And there's so many there's so many ways I want to go with that. But.
It's not gonna be like the main topic I want to discuss today, but I do think it's an important thing to talk about Just a little bit in regards to goals and then this I want to talk about how I want to talk about
Like, just...
Not giving up like. That was the one that heard load. It is. OK. OK, yeah, so I think something you mentioned was like we've had this from since February, right? This machine and we haven't been able to use it and life gets in the way. And something that came up for us just recently, I think would be really important to talk about is happening to most people that I know. And
Jarrod Sammet (03:59.274)
we could just open the conversation to talk about it. And that is the motherhood mental load, fatherhood mental load, like parenting and roles and responsibilities and the.
of how to navigate all of that because it's a lot. And if you're not in the same page, you're on the same values, or you're not taking the time to understand what your partner's needs are, and especially if they're different than yourself, it can cause a lot of challenges. Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing is that you want, you're always gonna have different needs in where we're at in our lives as individuals, but as a couple.
as parents, we have to align our values for what we want. Right. There has to be some alignment there without the, that alignment. It gets really challenging because your values are always going to compete because your values are how you make decisions. Your values are when it push comes to us of what are we going to do? Right. You go back to your values. And if we're in this together and we're true partners,
that we have to have shared goals, shared values. Otherwise, it's gonna cause a lot of stress. It's gonna cause a lot of arguments, resentment, which we've dealt with plenty, plenty and still deal with plenty, plenty of times. So yeah, I think it's been a lot of work in our almost what, eight years of marriage.
Um, and we're still working on, you've been married for eight years. So almost nine, nine years of marriage. Damn. It's a long time. And then we've been together since 2011. Yeah.
Jarrod Sammet (05:48.618)
Yeah, well, it's been a lot of work and we're still working on it. But I think we're continuing as we're navigating as individuals, it's actually helped us come together as a couple for sure. And we've had big things that have happened in our life, like both of our kids being born and that becoming parents, also becoming parents of an autistic child, Sydney the NICU, like there's just been like. And each of us experience those things completely differently. Yeah. That's that's the hard part. Yeah. Is experiencing.
we're both going through the same thing externally, but we internalize it, process it, and reflect it differently. Yeah. I was also thinking, you know, gender roles and like societal norms of what you just experienced or what you just expressed is like, we have expectations that have been set on us from a very young age. And I don't...
I do think for women, there's an expectation to be both. Like you can't just, like I feel like for dads, it's, I don't know, I maybe just like skipped a beat here, but I was just thinking as you were talking in terms of like values, like where your values come from, where beyond the personal work you've done, like we have had.
years of conditioning and a lot of it is gender based. And what's interesting is our experiences from our parents are completely opposite. I had a typical what you consider traditional way. My dad worked, my mom stayed at home with the kids. You had your mom work, your dad's staying home with you. So we also experienced that very differently. Right. So that's also the impact of this. Oh yeah. Right. Yeah.
And it's funny because you and I have actually talked about this because my dad was the one at home. My vision in a way was like, I had like, there was a caretaker, right? And he was male. And in a way that puts a lot of pressure on you. Because you think because you're supposed to be doing both in a way, right? Yeah. Which I want to do both. Yeah, too. But that's what we've talked about. It's like, what are the roles? What is what?
Jarrod Sammet (08:01.254)
can I cannot do. Yeah, which you don't always say no to. I don't say it, we learned that in therapy. I hate saying no, which causes me a lot of problems, grief, a lot of things. Yeah. Anyways, so what is your understanding of the motherhood mental load? Well, just because I have a wonderful wife who likes to educate me, both through stories and through social media posts or blogs or things like that. It's, to me,
How I would tell you from my lens is things that you worry and think about are not even the top of my mind, right? Like you're sitting here worrying about the future. You're worrying about what school is he's gonna go into. You're worried about how he's gonna be in the world, talking specifically about Jake, even Sydney. You're worried about doctor's appointments. You're worried about... If nutrition. If nutrition, you're worried about all these things. And I'm sure some...
more men think about the same thing. Cause the way I look at life is like, it's all gonna work out like, get germs, fall down at a playground, get up, right? Obviously I don't want really bad things to happen to them, but it's all gonna, things are gonna happen, right? So from that, I think I also, I don't have a lot of that mental load that you do.
because of also my view on life. Yeah, and I think that's definitely part of it is like all the extras. I think it's also part of my personality to be more anxious about certain things or be thinking about things. The mental load also is, which I will, I'm gonna say two parts here, so.
Relax. The mental load is basically, I like to put it like this. So.
Jarrod Sammet (09:52.454)
you're like cutting all your celery for your soup, right? You're getting everything ready. Like that's the action, but the mental load is the before. So what looking up the recipe and writing down the ingredients, having to get to the grocery store to do all of those things. Like what you see is not the mental load. It's what's in your mind of having to prepare that meal. To that point, whenever that action comes out, but it's everything that led up to that moment. Yes. That's in your head that you had to solve for
think about and organize. I gotta organize these kids, I gotta drive this one there, I gotta drive this one there, but how do I do appointments? Or like they're out growing clothes, like just different. Yeah, we don't have care. Like, now I gotta have the load of reaching out to my parents and asking for help. Are they available? Do they get sick, which we might talk about. All these things that might come up, or you.
are thinking about and you have to put all these pieces together to make one thing happen and then the thing happens like, Oh, it happened. But all that went into it happening was 10,000 things to get to the actual thing happening. Yeah. The birthday party. Yeah. Right. All these things that go before that. Yeah. So the second thing I was going to say is that
you cook over dinner. So you cook everything. And so like, you put a lot of energy into like making a list. But we do a good job of it. Like that we've helped, right? We know every meal going into the week. Right. And sometimes like, screw it, we'll figure something out. How we do that is we have a meeting every Sunday, every Sunday, where we talk about all the things we're gonna buy for the week, the grocery shopping, the schedule for the week, like all these things are scheduled. But that's
took a lot of time to get to that point, because everything before it was chaotic, right? And if we can eliminate some of the load from you and from me, right? That helps, right? So like, because part of your ADHD brain is.
Jarrod Sammet (11:43.626)
I have all these things I do, where do they go? Well, that's, it's, I told you this yesterday is like, all these things feel important. Like everything has to be done now. But it's very challenging for me to decide what is actually urgent, like what actually needs to be done where that's when you're really good at is like going, just, But that's why we, that's why it's a good balance. So, you know, it's been really helpful to have that other side.
I feel like, in many ways, I feel like it's unfair. Our life.
our life's circumstances, but I don't feel I don't feel that way about our life circumstances. I feel I feel very grateful for our life circumstances. I'm saying it in many ways. I just feel like I have more shit in my life than you do in yours. A perfect example of this. You know, you're smiling because I know you know what I'm gonna say. So Jarrod traveled four days, four nights last week, longest he's ever been gone with both kids. My parents were unavailable
Jarrod Sammet (12:49.296)
and so it was, and I got sick. Your dad was sick. My dad was sick. Unforeseen circumstances. He made it sound like, I'll just say, Sid was sick. Yeah, Sid was sick. I got sick, it was just a shit show, okay? And Jarrod is, in my head,
is somewhat true and somewhat not true. But in my head, I'm like, he's at like all these restaurants, he's just free, he's eating great food. Like he doesn't have to pay for anything, he's getting to use his like genius and he's getting super fulfilled and like not changing one diaper, not waiting on the monitor to see if Jake's gonna poop his pants. Like you just have freedom.
And in some ways that's absolutely true. 100%. And then another way is like you are there for work, right? So there is still like an obligation and it's not like you're just like having a ton of fun. I mean, it probably was fun, but. Yeah, I'm enjoying myself, but it's work, but it's work so that we can have all the things that we have and have a life. And.
We've said this and you would acknowledge this. Like I've worked really hard that I'm very fortunate. So I think if I was going to a job that I did not like, I don't think you'd feel the same way. If I was like, I know how stressed he is, he doesn't like what he's doing, he has to go. Yeah, totally. But you're like, he's like, you know that like what I gotta do those last four days is like what gets me the most high. Like I feel amazing. It's incredible. I get to build something.
let it play out, get to show people what I've built and get a great response back from it. And then spend time, you know, with some of my colleagues and I really am lucky I have amazing colleagues. So it's, yes, all the things you said, I'm very, very fortunate and I do, of course I enjoy it. Yeah. So what it feels like is that it's unbalanced. So I'm not gonna call it unfair.
Jarrod Sammet (14:40.866)
I want to call it unbalanced, right? Because I do have a choice to change my situation, like go back into a corporate job, but it's not the right fit for me and I'm on a different trajectory. But like, so it's not circumstances, but it is definitely the choices that we have made as a family for me to be involved in our children's lives in a certain way, especially for Jake, right?
So it feels unbalanced and I'm also ADHD, I, which is, which I share depression and anxiety with that and it can be challenging to manage the.
physical load of things that you normally take care of when you're gone, because you are a big, big part of what, how we function, how this machine works is a large part, you have a large part in that. And so, and it's, it's actually sometimes nice to see, because it does remind me of like, how much is actually happening, right? Because you're not there. I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm drowning. So, um,
So I just lost my train of thought, but so sometimes it can just really feel unbalanced where I feel like I get the shit end of the stick, right? And I feel that I'm trying very, very hard to do things that fulfill me both from the inside and on an external perspective in terms of my career. So, but I don't get the same.
Support like I can't I have to keep my phone on at all times when my child is at ABA, right? So Kim doesn't write you she writes me and so I could be in the middle of something and she could write me And I have to change everything and so I don't feel that I ever get just like a chunk of time to
Jarrod Sammet (16:47.97)
do my craft to be free. And I partly feel like it's going to be like that forever is that I that I'm plugged in all the time. And I don't know. I don't like until they're launched. But even then there's like fear about all that stuff. So this used to be like a really, really big fight.
constant cycling around it being on balance, me feeling resentful of like Jarrod, um, feeling fulfilled and doing work that he really enjoyed. And part of it was because I had not done my own, I had not started on my own journey. So that was a lot like of my stuff. And then secondly, I was still
puttering around trying to figure out what I wanted to do. Right. And so it's gotten a lot better first on my part for me taking ownership of certain things. But the other reason it's gotten better is because I've been able to express how I feel and it's been receptive, is that right? Receptive, received. Received. Received well and.
it's been validated and so you've been able to give me that emotional support. Yeah, I think that was the piece like, because for me, it's always been, what can I take care of? Right. Not always emotionally, but physically, how do I set up? Make sure you know what food you're doing, your schedule set up, right? All these things are set up. But what I realized after a while, which was hard for me because emotions and knowing, because I don't bear that.
like, right, so my emotional intelligence towards what you're experiencing at a very hard time understanding it, because I operate very differently. Because like even like, I think, not to say this, but I've had, you know, if I've had the kids for myself, it doesn't you have said and felt, yes, it's hard, but I don't think it's as sometimes as challenging to for me to like just
Jarrod Sammet (18:55.87)
If I have both kids, I'm gonna do the things that I need to do. I'm gonna knock off my checklist. Well, and this is also where the example comes in. So Jarrod was gone and then my Vitamix broke. And it's like the one thing in the morning that is like part of my routine in terms of like having my protein and like getting my Brazil nuts that have selenium in them because now I have Hashimoto's. Like I'm trying to take care of myself and it breaks on me. And Jarrod comes home and he plugs it in and it works. It just needed that little energy for me.
It was like that was a perfect example of like the frustration and challenge of things not maybe showing up for me in a more fluid, easy way. And then it working for you and like you not having to experience the mental load of that. That it was like a much freer. Plus what you just said in regards to being a little easier. I want to talk a little bit about that is.
Because when you said that, what I went to is that you want me to feel the way you feel. Which I don't, if the Vitamix broke for me, I probably wouldn't have felt the way you felt. Right? Like the same experience that you had with that happening, like whatever emotions came up for you or frustrations. And so that's what's always been a challenge for me is when you say that sometimes, like you don't go through what I, let me finish, you don't go through what I go through. Right?
but I don't think I would in similar experiences because we're different people. But also...
because your circumstances, you leave the house every day. You go to a shiny office with beautiful Starbucks espresso machines where they can make a latte for you. You've in the past had food that was readily available for you to go and get if you wanted it. So you have access to things that I don't have. This house is where I live, breathe, sleep, work. Like this is my every space.
Jarrod Sammet (20:58.276)
experience it, it's gonna I'm gonna have more, there's gonna be more value put on things that you're not gonna give a shit about. So like the backyard knowing that I have a child who elopes, and I can't just go to a park, but instead I'm keeping them in the house, I'm feeling trapped, you don't experience that. Because when you come home, we both take them to the park, it's like, it's balanced, they're both they can take care of. So for me pushing for a backyard, so we could get a swing set back there.
it was overwhelmingly important. And so the blender to me is like, it's like these are key factors. And you have things in your life that are like major parts of your routine. And if those things were to be disrupted, it is a challenge for you. Yes, it would throw me off totally. Yes. So the perspective thing is 100% right.
but also you don't experience being in the house or the things that like my routine is here. Yeah. So like when the treadmill broke and I had gotten into my, I've been in such an exercise, like a workout routine. And it's been a part of my experience. And when that broke while you were gone, and also happened while you were gone, this is not this time, but last time. The last time seems to always happen that way. I was gonna talk about that next. But like, it was just like.
I ask why me? And so the self work has helped me be like, okay, what is, like, how can I process this and not look like there's so much worse shit that's actually happening, right? And to step away, but.
my perspective in those moments is that you have it better. That things don't break for you because you're in a 9,000 square foot gym that you get to just go into and have every machine possible. But here I am in my basement with the one thing that I have that breaks. So it's hard not to get wrapped up into that. I totally agree. You know what I mean? I totally agree. Let's go back to something you said because I think it'd be interesting to hear.
Jarrod Sammet (23:03.414)
Thank you for all that, I really appreciate it. I'm getting in my am- Just build it! I don't know if it's the cold brew or it's like, oh, now we're on. I think it's what I said, yeah. No, but you said the shift that happened is that I was able to emotionally support you better. So I think it'd be valuable to know what happened, how did that happen? What did I do that made you feel more emotionally supported? Cause I think that was the biggest shift and I'm still working on it, right? But this was definitely the best that you've done. Yeah. The-
And you traveled in 2023, you traveled a lot, like once or twice a month. Yeah, like it was you're going a lot. Sometimes there's a lot more than that. Yeah, but now it's much less. So it hasn't been as frequent, which also sometimes is even more challenging because like we get into a good flow. But that's besides the point. I'll travel more. Is that what you're saying? No, please. Got it. Got it. But
or you're so what happened? So what was the shift? So what did that? What it used to be was like, it was either like, I'm sorry, that sounds hard, or it'd be like, what, like, I don't even know if you would ask what you can do. It just it felt so we felt so separate that you were not involved. You're not involved. And in that way, I want to take it back. You're very involved, but you were physically involved in terms of like what was happening.
And I just had this flash of when you were, I think in Iowa and I was taking pictures of Jake who had poop all over himself that one time. And like, when we were at FaceTime and I was like screaming and I just like, you're in your clean ass hotel room and there's clothes on the bed and like Jake and I'm just exhausted. I'm just thinking about these things because part of it is me.
for sure, right? And how we deal with different things. But the second part is feeling the support from a partner. And what I think for every single person, it's gonna look different. So for some people, for some moms, it might be the partner actually physically stepping in and taking things off the plate. For others, it could be like hiring help. Like there's so many ways to provide support.
Jarrod Sammet (25:11.262)
For me, it's definitely emotional support. The physical things are hard, but when you're not here, I take care of them. I clean the countertops, I put the dishes away. Like I clean up the house. So it's doable, but it's the emotional support that is the key for me. So I would say...
The biggest difference like this last time is I felt that I could I was like, I was so upset. I was upset because I was sick. I was overwhelmed. There was a lot going on in terms of like, just parenting things, right? And Jake, a lot of Jake stuff came up. A lot of Jake stuff came up. Just trying to figure that out. It feels like the minute I get settled, it like changes again. And you listened.
But you didn't go to solutions mode. You did go to solutions mode, though, too. But it was like, because I remember when my volume of my temperature went down, right? Or I guess, like my.
degrees went down. But it was when you started brainstorming ideas, what we were specifically talking about in this moment is about potty training. So Jake has been starting to potty train since July, he knows exactly what he's doing. But for some reason at night, he's like, he's withholding till he gets into his room. And until we leave his room, until we leave his room, and then we have to watch the monitor, we basically have no life because all we're doing is running up and down the stairs trying to catch him taking potty.
go and I run out. Yeah. So so Jarrod wasn't there for four nights of that. And I was getting so frustrated, so frustrated. And so that specific night when I was, I was in despair, like I was in despair. You listened, validated, and then the response that you gave me
Jarrod Sammet (27:15.518)
It showed that you were actively listening and that you were engaged to what I said, you cared. And you were like, you said, you know, it's really interesting that he does this because like it shows that he knows that. Like I can't remember the context. I think I said, he knows.
Jarrod Sammet (27:38.414)
to not go during the day most of the time. Yeah. He also knows at night if we're in there or we're sitting him on the potty before going to bed, not to go. Right. He knows when we're in his room. Yeah. But literally a minute after we leave, he'll go. Yeah. So he's very aware of when I'm alone. Yeah. And it feels safe or whatever that is for him. Yeah. Or he's comfortable enough to go. I think he...
maybe the pressure of us encouraging him and talking to him, that obviously doesn't work. But to this is like, what that feels like is what it feels like. I'm not alone. It feels like a team. I'm like, Oh, I have somebody else to balance this off of. I have somebody else. I care enough to think about it and not just give a surface level answer to hope, make you feel better. So we can get off the phone and I can go to sleep. Right. Exactly. Which is probably what I had done before. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Cause I won't, cause I'm
You took the time. You did. I remember what time it was and it was late. But I could tell that you were like, I know that I need to do this and this is important. And you did not, I did not feel that you were like, I need to go. Even though you may have felt like that, I did not feel that. And that was a really big difference than the past where it's like, your priority is I have to go to work in
Jarrod Sammet (29:03.956)
make a decision to have a baby. And so it's a joint effort, but it typically falls in the state home parent, and they become the default parent. And so in a lot of situations, a lot of times in the past.
there was this like get out a free card like this. I can check out because I can be somewhat involved, but I also, like I have a job. And I think one thing that's really important to just say here is like being a stay-at-home parent is a job, it is a job. But we are not, I am not compensated in that way. I'm compensated with art projects and like hugs and beautiful things and you know, the fruition of what that will look like doesn't come for 20 something years, right?
Hopefully they become star athletes and pay us back lots of money. And Jake's a musician kind of thing. But I just, it's really hard, especially for someone who's goal-oriented and very ambitious to...
to see that as work when it is very hard work. So we both have jobs, but mine is 24-7. But also a piece of that is your lens of what a job is. Yeah. Right? Compensation, like getting paid, obviously doing something that you're, you made a choice to have kids, but also you're, I married you because I knew how driven you were and passionate about making impact and doing the things that you wanted to do. So even though
This is probably the hardest job and is a job. You don't consider it that all the thing like how you're an admin, you're a housekeeper, you're a educator, you're all these things, right? But you don't see that because you don't, there's no compensation. And that's also because of how you're raising capacity that like, no, like, and even you said that with some of the stuff that you put out, right? I'm not getting compensated It's just, this is just for fun, but no, it's like, this is...
Jarrod Sammet (30:59.054)
probably the hardest job there is that no one teaches you and no one trains you for it. It's an on the job training, build the plane as it flies kind of job, right? And that makes it harder because your job is two humans who...
don't have like don't operate one single way. Right. And I think a big challenge that most of us have is like, it's not the kids. It's the adult learning how to emotionally regulate themselves and going through their own stuff. Kids, it's your it's your thoughts or reactions or thinking about one things the kids do that causes the stress and anxiety we thought about it's the thoughts around it. The challenges, the anxiety you have the fear, the frustration, the just overwhelm.
It's those things that are causing the feelings you have. They're just frickin kids. But that's hard to go through all that in your mind when all this is happening right in front of you and you're like, where the hell's my break? Like, when does it stop? Or like now that I am really clear on the things that I want to do. Yeah, that's hard. It's hard because like I just want to go do them. I am on like a slower pace and being someone who's a speedy person is.
a blessing and a struggle. Fast is not fast enough. It's not fast. Lightning McQueen. Yeah. Speed. Yeah. So anyways, so tell me on like your side, like what was that, you know, that kind of the timeline or change that you, like what did you go through to kind of be at the position that you're at now?
and supporting us. Transparently, I've learned that even though it might take more time. That in the long run and in that moment, it's usually less time.
Jarrod Sammet (32:53.814)
because if I am non-response or just trying to fix the problem and get off the phone as fast as possible, it turns out to be a very longer conversation because your frustration and anger comes out, which causes us to talk even longer because we have to deal through that as well as what just happened and what originally we're talking about. That's number one is that also through us going to therapy, being more...
communication, right? And the communication, like this has helped a lot because I think we're learning a lot from each other in this. But also when we started having these conversations a little bit more in depth and you me understanding your processing, me understanding my processing, you know, is something I continually am working on is my emotional intelligence is, and I think also understanding, it's not that just your mom, it's your mom with ADHD. And I've learned a lot more about what that is because
I've always thought, dude, it's so simple. I figured it out on my head. Just process, task, system, build it, put it in. And I would get frustrated, like, dude, that's what I would solve, like, dude, just do this and you'll be fine. But knowing you operate in a completely, your brain operates a completely different fashion than mine. I think it's the acceptance and understanding of that. And they go, okay, what would it be like if time did not even make sense to me? If...
15 tasks were on the table, they all seemed important. I felt like I had all of them done. And then to be doing something and have an idea, go jump to do something else, right? And trying to like literally put myself, what would that be like and how challenging that would be. And also understanding how you process and what you need because you're also a great communicator. So that's been huge is, all right, like I learned more, I know more. So what does she need in situations like that, that I could give you that? And when those moments come,
What's helped me is going into my body and be like, right, I'm feeling it. Excuse me. I'm feeling it. But that's what usually would have me either go solve. My frustration would come out in the words I would say, or how I would respond. And you could tell that I was either. Not present. Yeah. Distant. Yeah. Not really there. Yeah. Not paying attention, not focused on it. So I think for me it's like, Oh, that's coming up for me. So I'm obviously feeling that way.
Jarrod Sammet (35:11.306)
but also understand how I feel. But if I'm feeling this way, you're probably feeling the exact same thing. So what would I want in that situation? And I would want someone to listen, be supportive, be there with me, be in it. And that's been hard for me because I've always navigated all my emotions alone.
And I'm now trying to be more open to sharing my emotions with you so we can navigate together. And that's why I haven't understood it. It's that I process everything by myself. I don't, didn't or didn't think I needed anybody else. I can handle it. I've done it my whole life. Yeah. But you're the opposite where you really your parents. Yeah, verbally, but your parents were always encouraged you to share your emotions as you were two So you've always had and maybe.
that relied on but it's always been there for you when you're going through something that I can share it with somebody and they're going to be there with me through it. Well for me it was the opposite. So until I understood that I need that actually it helps me but that's how you really are and that's what you want in a partner was that oh well how can I be that for her and be that partner in the situation even though I'm not physically there but what can I do over the phone listen.
ask questions, she needs some support on how to solve this or how to approach this. But I could always tell like when that's what I'm looking for now is like, I'm curious to know how to how can I bring your temperature down as you said, right? And I'm thinking what I've learned, that's a big thing for me is being able to learn how to do that and what you need that I can now.
refer back to those things and those moments like, I can see it physically with you, your shoulders drop down. It's very obvious to me when you're coming down from a higher emotional experience and obviously I can tell you in your voice over the phone. So it's, I want to say I'm very, I am goal oriented. So I think my goal is how do I get her to come back down, right? To come back to presence or just not that heightened state. So I'm curious and I want to learn how to do that. So now it's like a
Jarrod Sammet (37:13.246)
Now I make it a thing for me. Like that's my goal now, is to get there. That's cool. I think I turned it into a little game. Yeah, you know what's so funny as you were saying that, I was like, you have a really good memory because I'm like.
I was thinking like, what did I do this last time? I don't know, I feel like every new thing is a new, every moment is a new one. Where I'm like, sometimes resorting back to old familiar behaviors because it's what I know rather than like the newer thing that has been like not as established. So I think that's a really cool thing that you are able to tap into and practice. Like it's readily available. I mean, I get it, you're getting reinforced that it's, yeah, like what I want is I want us to be in a really
good place. I want us to and you to be in a good place. So if that's my goal, I don't want to be in frustration and angry with each other and resentful of each other. Like my goal is that it's hard enough navigating life as an individual. It's hard enough, even harder navigating as a relationship. It's 10 times even harder doing with two kids. So if we're not good, the whole thing blows up. Yeah. Like as individuals, like when you're off, I'm off. Yeah, same visa versa Right? So like...
I don't like that feeling. It impacts me and my abilities to function at my job if we're not in a good place. So I know that. And 30 minutes of being on the phone and talking to you is like the best investment ever. What before is like, oh my God, if I get 30 extra minutes, I can get 30 extra minutes sleep. Like that is not as good as a benefit as me going to sleep and you going to sleep both.
feeling connected together and a partnership that's better for both of us. Yeah, well, it's really very appreciative of the effort that you've put in to do that because one of my things that I have said for so long is like, I feel alone, right? And so this helps that feeling that there's somebody in the muck with me. I think it's also important.
Jarrod Sammet (39:20.61)
just in that regard is like, I don't want you to think like me. Like I want you to have a different perspective. It helps keep the machine running because if we are both looking at things the same way, I don't know if anything would get done. Yeah. So. And back to my point earlier, we got a little emotional. Yeah. Um, I do feel what you feel. Just other things make me feel that way. Does that make sense? So like. Well, actually, can we go down that path? Yeah. Can we talk about like the difference between like.
a stereotypical motherhood mental load, fatherhood mental load. Again, this is going to be very individualistic for everybody. But I'm just curious, like, so why don't you speak in since you started talking about that? Yeah. So we have different things we were about. My biggest thing is your guys' safety and financial freedom. Like, that's what those two. And the third thing is that you, my other mental load that I go through is to everything we just talked about. How is Nikki?
she able she okay on the day to day navigating being the default parent? Does she also get space to do the things that are important to her? That's been my big thing is like, that the stuff we've done around you being able to exercise like that's important to me because I know because it's important to me. Like I have to have that every morning. And I know that's something you're really working on. So how can I create that space? Right? And then all the stuff that you're passionate about how do I make sure because
That's why I married you. Like I didn't want to marry someone that wasn't driven, that didn't want to make impact in this world. Cause I'm so driven to do that. That someone's like, no, I'm just going to kick back. And right. I don't, I don't know. I like that you're driven and know that you have, are here to impact not just the children that we have and not just each other, but something bigger than that. So knowing that I get to do that, I think that's cool too. All the experiences I've got to do and
give to myself I want you to have because I know how much they mean to me. So those are my biggest things. Financial, you guys are safe, that you feel you are supported and that you are the default parent, but also that you have space and time to fulfill your drive and what serves you. So that's what I, so when you're off or you don't get those things and you feel like I don't have time to do any of these things, when am I going to do these things? I want to be fulfilled.
Jarrod Sammet (41:44.478)
or when I'm away on my trip and it gets really freaking hard and you're the only parent at home and no one else is there, like that is on my mind, like when those moments happen. So I think those are probably the four things that I worry or concern myself with. Wait, there was four? I heard three. Financial. Yeah. Safety. You're supported in being a default parent and that you get to do your purpose and that you get to have time and space to do the things that light you up. Okay. Yeah.
So that's how I experience it. And when those things, any of those things are out of whack is when I'm off, is when I'm off and when I'm challenged. Any of them, financial? One could be off, yeah. I don't feel like you guys are safe. Is work like on your?
I think that comes with financial. Okay. I think that I have, because if any of those other things are off, it impacts my ability to work. Right. Which impacts our financial, that's where my mind goes. So all these, one of those things. And also I think me is like my routine, but I'm pretty down with that and I can be flexible, but I get that. Right? Like there's some days here and there, but that's because I get up so early and that's part of built in that, unless we had another kid, which-
Probably not. If that's not gonna get thrown off. So I don't worry too much about that. I'll find it throughout my day. But yeah, if any of those things are off, I'm off. And that's gonna impact all the rest of my ability to support you, my ability to. Can I just, I wanna dig into something really quick. So like you feel off. It is the hardest thing in the world to know when you're off. I mean, although like there's some like very clear indicators in terms of like your mood.
But we've talked about this before that like I'm coming from this like huge emotional reaction. I've explained it in the sense that like I'm in a box. Like I want to be a person that can stuff everything in the box and the seam closes and that like it's good. But I'm not that person. I overfill the box and it's bursting out. Right. Yeah. And so to me what it feels like is that it's a constant mess. It's a constant chaos constant problem burden right where it feels like you have it zipped up.
Jarrod Sammet (43:52.51)
And so when you said, like, when you feel off or like you're worried about safety, I'm like, when is he ever worried about safety? There was a guy who walked on our property and you seemed cool as a cucumber. I wasn't too worried about that. So I'm just, it's interesting to me, like, I don't know what that looks like. And so why I want to dig into that is because we've talked about this a little bit before in regards to processing and how it may feel like the other partner isn't.
necessarily engaged or that they're not like. I'm trying to, because again, as we talked about a little bit before, I navigate, I use my whole life, I've navigated my own stuff by myself. And I don't wanna burden you because what I've been thinking for a while, which I've switched my mindset on, is that because of the, you navigate things and if I'm off and I'm.
putting that burden on you, plus you're off like, oh God, what is this gonna look like? And what you switched to is? Is that we can be together in this because if I can't show anything, that's why you feel like you're a mess all the time. Exactly. Is because, well, Jarrod always has to get, and this challenged me when I used to be a leader. I share this a lot. You are a leader still but. In a sales organization. Yeah, when I led a large team was, I just always thought I had to have it together. I was that toxic positivity leader, which.
to your point of what's happened in our relationship, that it's not okay to feel these high level emotions, stress, fear, doubt. So my team would stop coming to me because I can't go to Jarrod, he always has it together. And if I go to him, he's just gonna tell me to flip it and turn it to make it positive. It's all gonna work out. So I learned that there and I'm learning that now is that actually sharing those things with you doesn't make two plus one plus one equals 10, it actually lessens it because we're on it together. So even this morning,
I didn't have to tell you that I was frustrated with Jake, but I wanted to make a point to say, I was really, I don't know, I didn't get my full meditation in this morning. He was up super early. Sometimes Jake can get really floppy with his body. Yeah, and I was just really agitated with this morning. And I probably never would have shared that with you before. But I wanted to make a point because I know how you feel that too. So now you're like, and then you were able to say, dude, I know, I know what that's like. And now we're together. Yes. Right, we're connected and sharing that experience. So it's not like.
Jarrod Sammet (46:10.77)
even when Jarrod's home and it's frustrating, Jarrod doesn't experience frustration or any of those things. So, yeah. I think that was really important that you just said that. Before I forget, there was something that you said this past trip that was different than before. It was when I was expressing all of these things coming out of the box and felt so unglued, you said something really important. What was it? I know. We both are like, what is it? Well, it was really important. It was basically...
The essence of it is that you were saying that it's not that it was this, it's that I was just expressing myself. Do you remember how you said it?
I thought it was just super profound. And of course I can't remember what it is, but I know. It was the reason why it feels so profound. It was like, you understood. I was like, wow. I think, was it the managing piece? Oh yes, yes. You said you are managing. You're just expressing how you're feeling. That's what you said. So you were validating. Because you tend to go to when it's all chaotic and you feel like you're a mess that I can't manage all this. But I'm like, Nikki, you are managing it. You're just expressing that while you're managing it, it's really fucking.
Yeah, that was what it was. Right, so you're just sharing what you feel while trying to manage it all, but you say that a lot and I stop you like, Nikki, if you weren't managing it, it would be, kids would be dead. No one would go to school. There would be no food. The house would be imploding. You are managing it. It's just these emotions come up sometimes when it gets hard to manage. Which are okay. Yes. But we're taught. Yes.
And so part of what you just said to come back to is like in the past, feeling like
Jarrod Sammet (47:46.858)
If I was going to express this is hard, it would be like, well, like it's your perspective, you change it, which to a point I fully agree with. I think that we make our lives harder because the way we see certain things and thoughts around it. And to be a human being, you're going to feel these emotions. So to completely avoid them is actually what we want to avoid. We want to feel them while also managing them and recognizing that these feelings are fleeting and that they're not always going to be here.
to continue to reinforce to you is like you are managing this. You're managing it amazingly. And it's hard and it's harder for some people. Can I just add that it also goes along with my expectations of what I think managing should look like. Yes, that you should be perfect. You should look beautiful and your hair should be done. I should work out. I should go to the shop. I should do the- And I should be smiling and singing while I'm doing it.
That's not managing it. Yeah. Well, let's talk about my mental load though. Yeah, let's talk about it. Because it comes back to the blender situation. So when the blender broke. It feels like a blender. It does. But the blender is not just part of the routine. So what happens to me when the blender breaks is I go, this is a $600 plus machine. Mm.
And I, at this current moment in our lives, am not a financial contributor. And something that we talk about often in our dialogues is about money and about how we wanna spend money, what we wanna do with our money, dreams that we have for our house, lots of different things. And so when I see a machine that I dearly love that is expensive as fuck. She's talking about a Vitamix, like the greatest thing ever. I love my Vitamix. It is a beautiful machine. When that breaks,
That's also what I'm thinking about. And then it compounds the fact that I am not where I wanna be in my career. And I go, if you were fucking working right now, then you would have the money to go buy a Vitamix. And then I have to go, I have to ask my husband, aww my vitamins broke, we need to buy one. Which then puts this whole cycle of feeling guilty and shame and feeling like the vitamins broke for me, like it didn't break for you. But if you were to buy them, the vitamins broke for you.
Jarrod Sammet (49:58.206)
Even though money, let's just pretend that money wasn't part of the conversation, you could go and buy the Vitamix without asking. I cannot.
It's not that we're in a position where you're like, you can't do these things, but I'm in a position where I have to be like, hey, can we do these things? Where you're like, I'm gonna do this thing. And so, and that being the kind of person that I am is a very fucking uncomfortable place to be. Not good for her. It's not good for me, which is why I think I'm always actively trying to like get back into that seat of being a financial contributor. So to then just go a little bit further with this load is like,
It's not just the fact that I would need to go online and look for the blender. It's the emotions that are tied to that and the feelings that.
of all my conditioning, my shame, all that stuff. Then it's tied into, of course, well, I also have to look for, or do the schedule for Jake, and now Sydney's going the same day. How am I gonna drive? What am I gonna take care of myself? Like, oh my God, I gotta get Sydney's school clothes, because now she's going to school three days a week, and I have to get her stuff. She can wear PJs to school. I know, but I'm just like, and then I'm like, all these things that are now on my list, in addition to the things I wanna take care of. And when do you have time for that?
I'm up till 1 a.m. Although I am a night out ADHD person last night I cleaned my entire bathroom vanity at starting 11 30 p.m. Finished at 1 a.m It's perfectly clean. So I'm trying to lean in but the point is that I just I get frustrated I'm like fuck I have to
Jarrod Sammet (51:32.502)
do all these things for these kids. I also have to do household things. I'm the one who's gonna like be on these meetings while I also have dreams. So being someone who also has this struggle of certain things not fully connected, it can be challenging. Okay, I'm gonna bucket this here, bucket this here, bucket this here. So.
part of the chaos, I've now named that part. So if you listen to other episodes, Jarrod and I have talked a lot about internal family systems therapy, IFS, and naming your parts. I think that was that, was that the last episode? I don't know. Whatever. I like this new name, I like this person. But so I have.
I have Grinder who's my perfectionist. I have Scout who's anxiety. I have Shade who is depression. And I have self, which is like my true, true self. And this last person. Who is it? This last person which represents ADHD, her name is Scribble. So good. And it's like, and so I actually thanked her last night after I did the bathroom vanity. I was like, thank you Scribble. Thanks Scribble. So, okay, now Scribble go away. Cause I totally lost my train of thought.
But the mental load, I think, can also be really different based on people's partnerships, right? So some people are going to have more laundry, more physical tasks to take care of, and it's very overwhelming. Whereas someone like myself may have other things, specifically like advocacy and so forth. I saw a reel yesterday about the mental load for men and women and that women's tasks
typically, this is stereotypical traditional roles, okay, tend to be more unseen where, and they are everyday consistent tasks where a dad or a male figure, the lawn doesn't need to be mowed all the time. But
Jarrod Sammet (53:26.058)
it's mowed inconsistently, but it's mowed, right? And the second part of it is a scene thing that's done. So you can tell when the grass is cut, it was a action. It looked good when I did it last weekend. It did.
But for like me, who's then emailing back and forth with his preschool, that is unseen. And so we get, we're like under this rug all the time where a lot of the men get the recognition, like I did this thing, I took the trash out. There's no more trash in the trash can. Whereas me managing my anxiety while we were at the playground yesterday, worried that Jake was gonna push another kid, like that.
You're not, I don't know. Maybe you're thinking that actually, but yeah. But I just, it's a way it's different things that we. Where it's that some, a lot of women's things, and I'm going to speak truly to myself and what this research that I've done, I don't know if this is fully accurate, but is that it's, it goes unseen.
And motherhood in general is an unseen role. Whereas when you go to work, you get the validation, you get the conversation with someone like you're on the right track. Even if it's like not the final task, it's like you have these meetings and they're like, good job, or let's rewrite this. But you get like- You're getting feedback. But with motherhood, you're like, this is a cluster fuck, I'm a cluster fuck, this whole thing, like I suck at it.
And so it's really very valuable, I think, to hear from your partner that I see the unseen tasks. I see those. Thank you for going to that meeting that I couldn't make. Actually, I'm gonna take that back.
Jarrod Sammet (55:07.382)
It's not the thank you for going. It's the taking the interest. How was that meeting with that person? What did you learn? It's both, I think it's both. I think I'm saying, hey, I really appreciate it. I really want to know how that meeting went, right? But do you notice that I thank you when I get to go work out? Yeah. Do you notice that I thank you when I can go do certain things? I don't want you to. But do you ever thank me? Yes, I've worked on it, yes. Yes. Let me rephrase it. You don't, yes.
Okay, okay, okay. Come on. Okay, okay. I'm done better. Oh, for everything's better. No, we're able to have this conversation because we've learned that through therapy because we really thought this like, I thought I was supporting you more. Right. And and she's star right? Ours is star. Yeah. Our couples therapist is star. What were thats her
Not a real name. That's her code name. Yeah. Code name star You have a lot of characters. Yeah. We noticed that. I felt I was supporting more by saying thank you. But then she unpacked that. That's not necessarily all that you need. It's not just the thank you for doing it. It's the interest. It's more the interest in asking, how did that go for you? Like I try to ask now, like, did you have a good workout? Right. Yeah. Like try to show more interest in the things that you're doing. Right. And asking what challenges, you know.
Like when I got home or on Friday after I was done with work, like all that stuff that was going on with scheduling and all those things. Like I hope I did well in that situation where you were really at a peak and it was overwhelming. It was a compilation the whole week and then sick. Four days without me, I was now home. Right, and I think that's a piece too. I get glimpses of it, but I think once I'm back, kind of all of it kind of comes at the end.
Right? Because like we get glimpses to talk to each other. It's not like, like when I'm home, we could be talking way more often than like navigating certain moments. And so it wouldn't, it wouldn't rise. It wouldn't rise. Yeah. It wouldn't. Well, and that's, that's actually very true. Like we talk every night over dinner. Right. And so you are may have, we're getting like, I get to process 20, 30 minutes a day when I'm gone, maybe, right. Maybe. And in that moment, it's just like, what's happening right now. Yeah. It's a catch up. What's going on? It's quick. Yeah.
Jarrod Sammet (57:17.322)
Right. It's not as often as like even during the day at work, we can talk longer when I'm at work.
Right. And then obviously we get the whole night from when I'm home to when they go to bed and even after they're in bed to, to catch up and really. And that's my time to process through things where you being an internal processor don't necessarily need that space, but at least it's an open up opportunity for you to do that. But for me, it's like I've been waiting all day to be able to unscribble. Yeah. Well, let's talk because I think given some actions, I think a big thing that I've learned, which I know now is I won't
say no. That's even not to a task or asking or something. It's even when maybe you need me and I'm not available, but I'll pretend I or I'll try. Which is worse. Yes, which I'll try to be. Yeah. So I think that's important if you're in a relationship and someone needs you in that moment, but you know that you don't have it in you. Don't fake it. Don't try because it's going to be disingenuous. Be honest. Be honest. Like, Hey, I know you need me right now. Like,
give me like 30 minutes to like just settle my mind. Can I just add something that may be really helpful? Cause this is so Brene Brown and her husband's percentages. So like you can ask somebody where they're at. So like I'm at 20% right now. I do not have enough battery power to give this to you. Can I recharge for a half hour and then I'll come back to it. So I'm just- And that's hard, right? You got kids, no one gets to recharge in that moment. Obviously when I get home, I'm gonna take the brunt of being with the kids, which-
I told her again, and I usually don't have a moment that where I need it, it's like a recharge. There might be some, but like- We used to get a drive home. But even coming home from a trip, even though I was doing what I was doing, I was dead. I was dead. Like three straight days of eight hour facilitation. I always just beat and then you're going out to dinner, entertaining clients, like I was just beat. Was also very out of your routine. Yeah, very out of my routine. I don't sleep well in hotels. I don't know why, just, I don't know. I don't sleep as well. I miss Nikki so much and her feet and.
Jarrod Sammet (59:16.51)
I meet me having short part of the king size bed and you snoring your face off and then she wake me up every hour. Well, I'm just like, stay that way. Yeah, I can't. I like laying my back. But I but I think, yeah, you have to be open to saying that.
and saying like, hey, I wanna be there for you, but like, I don't think I can give you what you need, or like, I wanna come to this conversation, like it's important to me, but I'm so dead, like I will not be able to give you what you need. And it's not that easy all the time, like because that person might need it, but I also know that you need me in that moment. What is there to say that you say? When like I'm expressing myself? Do you need advice or support? Yeah, that's a big question. It's like, because my tendencies go to advice.
Most men, I think. Yeah, yeah, most men. So it's like advice meaning do you want me to help solve it for you or do you just need me to sit here and support you and let and hear it out and be present and look at you while you express how you feel? And I think that's been important because I always went to advice. But I think, again, every probably thing we're gonna talk about when it comes to a relationship is just this communication piece. Like it's the communication, it's the honesty too. Like don't fake it, don't pretend, don't try to.
be the person they need to be when you know you can't because you're also an individual and you have to realize that because it ends up being worse. Like I've said, like if I just try to pretend our conversations go longer and then it's not just gonna be what we talked about, it's gonna be the fight we're gonna have afterwards. And then we gotta recover from that, right? And then that's even more draining. So I think it's just the communication aspect of this, knowing what you need, but you can also set this things up like we, you know, like knowing when we're gonna have time with each other.
like to have conversations or like, hey, like I work, I'm like, hey, I tried to do now, hey, I won't be, like I said, when I was in the facilities, I'll call you on a break, I'm not gonna be available. So you know, right? And if I'm gonna call you, I'm making that choice, I have to be ready to receive what's coming. But also I love what you just said, that like keeping your partner also aware, like, hey, I have dinner.
Jarrod Sammet (01:01:21.398)
Tuesday and Wednesday of this week, I'm not gonna be home. So giving that person, like, I'm like, okay, I can mentally now prepare for me, because I was waiting for you to come home, but now this is the next thing I think is really, really important is that what happens with the return. So like when you get back, the connection, the reconnection, right? And so, because it is a lot, like it's like a reconnection of things, but that could be, you know, a change in routine and schedule,
traveling. But it's like, how do we repair? How do we reconnect? Yeah. And having knowing like, okay, I'm going to be out Tuesday and Wednesday of this week. Let's do this Thursday and Friday. Yep. So knowing that the relationship is of importance, then we have to we have to reinvest rein back into it, right? Because we can fall right back into everything. But we have to read we have to reconnect. So again, so we can be good. Yeah.
Right. And back on the same wavelength, because we're on different wavelengths for days, right? To come back so that we can be good partners. So we can give what we need to give to our kids and to each other, right? That's really important. Yeah. Well, this was a lot. Yeah. Is there anything that we like missed out or that we think would be important to round out? Yeah, I think the biggest thing is that there's some themes here that are probably across partners and relationships, but I think it's...
This is very our individual experience as individuals, but also in a relationship. Figure, sit down with your partner, talk about it, like understand, like, yes, there's motherhood mental load, but your mental load impacts my mental load. Right. And that's important to share. Like, especially for men, I think it's harder to be vulnerable at saying you do struggle with certain things and that things are hard or these are what challenge you or what.
what you think about sometimes. And again, I think a lot of guys want to hold it together, especially with their spouse. It's like, I gotta, if I'm safety and I'm that person, if I'm off.
Jarrod Sammet (01:03:22.654)
what does that look like for us? But actually it pulls you closer together because you're partners. Not one person has to solve everything. Not one person has to do it all. It's like we can do this all together and actually that connects you more and creates more understanding. It's gonna bring you closer together to be the best partners ever. So I think, again, find time to sit down and have these, you don't have to record a podcast, but just you have to open up and share. Really? And knowing...
who I am and how my life up to this point is impacting me in a relationship has been really, really crucial. Because we're completely opposite in the way we express and process and hold, I hold, you release, right? And we try to give both because there's not, neither one's right. It's the balance. It's the balance of both, right?
I was just thinking about the user manual we want to create. Yeah. And that we'll have both like this individual piece, but also sitting down with your partner so you know what to talk about. You know what question to ask. So it looks like we got to get on that. Yeah. And it takes intentionality. Like, it's not just, this is not just going to happen. Like, yes, you have hard jobs and it's tired. The parent has the hard job. The person at work has a hard job. It's easy just to like, when the kids are down, just to like.
Yeah, it's nice. We did last night we vegged out and just sat down. We needed it. I was gone. It was like we're not we're just gonna fricking sit and watch a movie. It's like, you know, that's what we need to do. Yeah, it was very nice. Yeah. But other times it's like, no, we have to sit down and have these conversations because this is what connects us. And a relationship is work. Yeah. Oh, marriage is work. It's never easy. It shouldn't be. If it's easy, then you're not really being honest with each other. Right. You're not. Like you're faking it. Right. Like you really are because
It can't be easy, especially if you have kids. It's not easy. If you're homeowners and if it's just, you're worrying about financials, right? It's hard. Well, thanks for chatting over. Yeah, this is fun, our first video. Yeah, I know. I'm interested to see what it looks like. I barely looked over to my left, so. Now we can. Hey guys. Now we can, but thanks for chatting. Yeah, appreciate you. Appreciate you. All right. Bye.