EP 6 Embracing Curiosity: Overcoming Fear and Embracing Growth

In this episode, Nikki and Jarrod discuss the concept of curiosity versus judgment. They share personal stories about overcoming fear and embracing curiosity, and they explore how curiosity can lead to growth and new possibilities. They emphasize the importance of self-reflection and deliberate intention in shifting from judgment to curiosity. The episode concludes with a reminder to appreciate the journey and lessons learned along the way.

Takeaways

• Curiosity versus judgment is a choice we make in every situation.

• Curiosity allows for growth and new possibilities.

• Self-reflection and deliberate intention are key in shifting from judgment to curiosity.

• Appreciate the journey and the lessons learned along the way.

Listen here:

Transcript:

Jarrod Sammet (00:12)

Welcome to the Over Dinner podcast. I'm Nikki Sammet and today I have my baby daddy. Joining me. Hi, I'm Jarrod. Jarrod, the baby daddy. The baby daddy. Yeah. I saw a woman today, she had a dog mom shirt on and it made me think of your dog dad shirt. I wear that to the gym at work.

Do you get compliments or anything that's any anything? Mixed mixed. So we're just here to my baby daddy, but you're not my dog daddy anymore. Mm -hmm. They're to bring that up. I know but packs is with us all the time. Yes. Anyways, great dinner tonight. Yeah, Jarrod made What are these called? What are they called? Chicken tenders, but he makes them.

I don't make the chicken that would I don't I don't have chickens in the backyard but Secret to the recipe simple mills sea salt crackers Blend them up get them nice and thin pour a little bit of flour some garlic and paprika The next key is the two eggs that you beat to dip them in first put a little pickle juice in those eggs That's the secret apparently that's the secret you do that

Fry them up in the toaster oven, 400, 10 minutes, flip them halfway through, make an amazing salad, put them on top.

Got yourself a chicken tender salad, baby. Yeah, that kid we did this because there was a restaurant in San Diego What was that place called down? It was in little Italy with like the chicken place. Oh There's two of them. Yeah. Oh, there's one Encinitas too. Yeah. Anyways, there's a there's an amazing restaurant We loved in San Diego and they have a chicken tender salad and Jarrod recreated it So I think for tonight something that keeps coming up we talk about a lot But I think more things have happened recently

this idea of curiosity versus judgment and we have two options in all situations anytime something happens anytime we interact with a person we have a choice between curiosity and judgment so I think it's a good topic to kind of talk about tonight yeah I mean it really really really shapes your perspective

I don't think that I really understood that until I went down this self -discovery track. It's what you say, right? You always say it's a choice, but it really is something else when you look at things differently. And I can relate to this so much because of my fear of bees. And I thought that this would be a really great story to share, to be able to explain how

of a difference the two of them are like the curiosity versus judgment so if you've known me throughout my the last 35 years well I'm gonna say like 30 years

I have been terrified of bees. I've run from them. I've dropped children. To the point that she lies sometimes and said she's allergic to them. Yeah. So that bees around people are like trying to get them away from her. Let's just, let's just call it what it is. She's not allergic. We don't have an EpiPen around. I'm not allergic. And this, this is the reason why I'm so scared is two reasons. My mom growing up that lived in a house that she shared the room.

to the attic door and there was a tree next to her room that had a beehive and all the bees were in the attic and all night long she would hear the buzzing. That sounds terrifying. She grew up terrified of bees which she then passed out. Yeah obviously. That's another episode of the influence of your parents on your fears. And then in kindergarten a little girl Raquel

sat on a bee in front of me and that was the end of it. Terrifying. Terrifying. So I have been running from them and the funny thing is I stepped on one once when I had to teach a yoga class and I was fine, but I'm still terrified. So anyways, we moved to Georgia and there are black wasps here. Like literally. They're big. It is fucking scary, dude. I, oh God, it's so scary. But. And.

And we don't say but here we say only and yes very true. So over the last we've been here going on three years um During the spring kind of when it's getting warmer They tend to get in the house somehow and we have an amazing exterminator lady She's awesome and she like will come even if there's one bee she'll like come and help me out But I kid you not like I have slept

in another part of the house with a B in our master bedroom and no one's in the king -size bed and I'm like under a blanket on some couch and it's they could be 20 feet away from me and I'm like they're gonna get me it's ridiculous okay so enough about the negativity right but it has been a really really hard like the hard thing for me to be comfortable around.

but I've wanted to have a much more relaxed experience. So a few months back,

There was multiple wasps in the house like consistently and Jarrod was traveling so I would be like Whacking a broom hoping or not and like calling facetime my parents like They were gonna help. They were gonna come on over. My dad would be like just slam with a shoe. I can't do it. Anyways, you don't want to hurt the bees. They're very important to our world. Yes. Okay, so I Remember there's very specific day. I

It was a busy morning.

Drop -off diaper changes waffles on the go and I was rushing out and there was another black wasp on the ceiling near the chandelier and the foyer and I remember being so angry that there was another fucking bee that I had to deal with and I was like Jarrod doesn't have to deal with this shit. He's like, you know the whole thing a few hours later I had stopped the target to pick up a few things and I was waiting at the red light to turn and

And a bumblebee had found itself inside my car. Like you're lucky I was stopped. I'm lucky I was stopped. It was terrible. I gripped the steering wheel and said out loud, like, they're not here to hurt me. And it went, it flew out the window. It was, it was like, like right on the upper part of the window. Okay. It's left. I looked up.

and the license plate in front of me had a bee mascot. And I was like, what the fuck? Like, what is the deal here? Why are they chasing me? They're everywhere. And for the first time ever, ever, I asked myself, are bees trying to tell me something? So when I got home, I did what I always do, I researched. Research, girl can research like no other. And I looked up what is the symbolism of bees?

And my personal opinion, which came to me, was curiosity versus judgment, because I was more open to the experience of what the bees could be. Also, then...

Perhaps being a messenger of some sort. What is the lesson that I'm needing to learn here? You're obviously attracting bees. Yeah, right. Well, so that could be like that could be a whole thing in itself of being like, am I attracting bees because I'm fearful or am I attracting bees because they're going to teach me something? What you resist persists, man. Yeah. So you think I was fear that they were coming back. Yeah. OK. Well, actually, that is part of our story, right? OK. So what I found was that the bee symbolizes hard work and productivity. Bees also symbolize abundance.

When you see a bee, it reminds you to stay focused on your goals and keep working hard. The other thing that it said, which was really what changed my perspective, was that bees are a good omen. So seeing a bee means that good news is on the way. It also symbolizes the soul, which was so cool. So when you see a bee, it lets you know that new life is around you and whether that means new opportunities, friendships.

whatever it may be, it's there. And that was the last time I was scared of bees. Because I really was able to change my perspective and now I only see them when I'm on the midst of a breakthrough or I've doubted myself completely and they show up.

And they are and you're anxious and anxious here Yeah like the one time we were Jarrod and I were sitting in the kitchen and he was really encouraging me to launch my blog and I was repeatedly saying I Couldn't do it. Like no one's gonna read it. It's not gonna happen a fucking black wasp through flew right over both of us and then

Where was it? It had served its purpose because in the morning it was dead on the floor. Nobody touched it. It just had, it had served its purpose, which was to teach me that fear.

is what? Tiny? No, what is fear? That on the other side of fear is the most amazing things. And I totally agree with that. And sometimes I feel like I get actual tangible reward of feeling fear, like sitting with it or going through an experience or, you know, finding more confidence in myself. I get something. So the other day I was meditating.

I kept hearing a flutter and like something hitting the wall or a window. Okay, and I had my eye mask on so I'm like, what the fuck is this shit? Like I'm envisioning the worst case scenario because that's my what was the worst case scenario?

First I thought maybe it was like rodents upstairs in the attic then I thought like will I open my eyes and there will be a mouse on the floor? We've never had a mouse. I knock on wood. Now I'm retracting it. Yeah, but when I opened my eyes, I didn't see anything and then I saw the black wasp and it was trying it was like kind of hitting the window But I wasn't scared. I wasn't nervous. I wasn't worried. He was gonna come get me.

Literally said do your thing be I don't know where it is. I don't even I haven't even thought about it. Okay So a few hours later Well, actually no I had gone downstairs. I opened the cabinet and there was my b -mug. Just like again all signs I believe in that shit. I don't know if you do do you believe in like all these little signs? Yes, I think I'm more into it symbolism than you are But you're attracting the symbolism. That's what I think. Okay, you're seeking it out to learn something

Okay, so then I'm curious what your thoughts are about this reward that comes. The reward that comes because a few hours later Jake had speech therapy and this is the day we found out that he could read for sure. That he was already reading but we didn't really know. And so...

Got so that fear I had had the night before because I had had a lot of fear about the night before about Jake and just you know all the things that come along with parenting and also a child on the spectrum and Then I went through that fear. I sat with it. I was okay the bee came and then I Found this great incredible moment that happened

So is that because I did that and like I experienced it and I went through it I got like a reward Or is it because it's the way I was looking at something? I think because of how you've navigated your feeling towards bees that now, you know the symbolism of them So in your mind when you see a bee Something good's gonna happen You open your awareness To something good gonna happen

So you could have been in a really different state while Jake's speech therapist was here anxiety stress judgment It wouldn't you wouldn't have had the same lens or experience of what happened that day of realizing jake could read But because the beast symbolizes possibility new amazing moments That when that moment happened your lens was that's that's that's what that is. This is that moment?

Right? So because you attach symbolism, then it allowed you, that was the perspective you were in. So really a lot of things could have happened post that experience, which you would have been like, that's that, there it is. It could have been something, I mean, that was a big thing, obviously, but it could have been a tiny thing and you would have been like, ugh.

That's it. It's showing me, right? So how do we live in that? Just can't, so can these things be happening all the time? Yes. That's what I'm saying. That's how do you live in a place of anything is possible at all times so that when you see something that's possible, like if you can live in that awareness at all times, then you see everything from that way, right? If we always, if we have to have a B to have that experience, then we have to wait for a B to come around.

But how can you not have to have it be and that's just the way you perceive at all times, constantly. That's the evolution we're trying to, we want to get to. That, and that's, I'm.

probably a little more farther along on that journey where I literally think every experience is a great experience because I'm open to that experience because I don't label it good or bad. The quote is Shakespeare, nothing's good or bad but thinking makes it so. That's just perception. Whatever state we're in.

is how we're going to view any experience. We could have the most amazing thing, but you're in a place of fear and anxiety or anger. You will not see that as a great experience. It could be great, but you won't see it that way. Because you're not in a place to receive it that way or see it that way. I think this is the most beautiful concept and it's so...

So true and now that I've done this work and I can appreciate that because I don't see it because when you're not ready to receive that you're like fuck that like my life is hard like I have so much shit do you see how much shit I have and that's when you make excuses for why things happen and Like let's just that's a that's happening just cuz it's nothing to do with me like you you you

Kind of push off that experience is not a good experience. Like it's not that big of a deal. You brush it off, right? Why can't every experience be magical? Why can't it? If you want it to be, it will be. Well, I'm curious if some people don't live in that state.

because of happiness anxiety of like everything's magical. Is the other shoe gonna drop? So that's like, I think for me, I color a little bit of my experience because I get concerned. I worry that if it's too good, then it's not real and something's gonna happen. So I'm just curious if, because.

I wonder also are some people just built that way or is it a learned experience? It's a both probably. What am I answer to every one of those questions? Yes, they're both true. Yeah, they're both true. Yeah, as you were talking, I was thinking about what it takes.

to get unstuck and to come out of judgment and to practice more curiosity. And what is the pathway for someone to take in order to begin that journey? And I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. So you have to start with all the things you're already judging from your past. So you become aware of them. I judge my childhood. I judge this one experience. So if you hold judgment within you at all from other things that have happened, judgment.

exist in you constantly. There will be moments. Can you break down judgment? Is that just like being critical of yourself? Is that being like shame? What is what is judgment? Judgment is an internal judgment and an external judgment. I judge other people for things that they did and I judge myself which sometimes turned into shame and I judge myself for things that I have done.

So judgments to me has two two faces of judgment external and internal I judge that person but usually you're judging that person because of your own judgment of yourself You reflect your own judgment onto other people right right judgy people See judgy people, right?

Right? Hurt people hurt people. Happy people see happy people. Right? It's just, that's your lens. So if you're coming from a lens of you have judgment that exists, you're going to judge other people and the things that they do. So it is all based, everything's based off your own experience and your own perception. It's what reflects to what energy you bring to yourself, but also what you see. Yeah. So thank you for breaking that down because I think it can mean so many.

So many things and maybe to each person they have their own opinion, but I really appreciate you sharing that. So it's interesting. So, so often as we talk about these topics, I have people that come to mind that I'm like, I would love, I would love for them to receive this.

but they obviously have to be ready to receive it. And so they have to be curious. They have to be curious. Okay. So let's start like, you know, give people takeaways. Like I always say this, the simple way. Do you ask why questions or what questions? Okay. So that is really interesting because coming back to perception the other day I've had, it's really funny because I was talking to heart, my therapist about this, um, experience specifically about curiosity and perception.

So as you know, I tend to run a little late. I'm a rusher. Tend? I'm rushing out the door. We've been working on this for 14 years. Yeah, I've been rushing the toothbrush, the shoes, the waffles are in the car. We're doing it on the go. We got it together. I am like, make it by the wire. OK, some days it's the most stressful.

20 minutes of my life. I'm gripping the steering wheel. I'm mad at every red light. I'm cursing at everything. I'm on the phone with her sometimes and she's like honking, what are you doing? Judgment. So the other morning, we got in the car and I was behind all these, I was getting red lights and I was behind all these cars and I asked myself, what's the lesson? What?

What is the lesson? Not why am I getting all the red lights? No, it's what's the lesson? And the lesson to me was slow down. And guess what? I pulled in at exactly 11, 20. I wasn't even late. And I was... And you're already judging it before you even happened. Yeah, exactly. So you create all this energy before these things actually occur because we're in judgment.

And it's just a really fascinating experience because I've now had the B, I've had moments of like being in two different perceptions and it's very drastic. And which one's better? Curiosity is way better. Like it's really just...

lighter and more fun place to be but I want to come back to I didn't mean to cut you off as you're about to probably coach us all. This is funny because typically I get called out for cutting Nikki off. Listen it's been a long time you always interrupt me. She actually did last night in therapy too and I thought it was hilarious. Why was it so funny? Because we've been you called me out in one of our therapy sessions Jarrod always cuts me off and then she did it last night so. One in a million.

I wouldn't say a million. All right, so back on track, coach. Yes. I'm not the baby daddy anymore. I'm the coach. Cool. Shifting my... It's a hotter. I shifted my identity. Actually, baby daddy is pretty hot. I shifted my identity already. This is great. Well, if anyone can do it, Jarrod, it's definitely you. All right. So what do we do? How do we find it? It's really like the second you ask yourself saying...

Why is this happening to me? Why am I late? Why is that person doing this to me? Or why is my kid always sick? Why is my job? All of the things. Yeah. Can you flip it to a what question? Just that's the practice. Okay, what's the question? Is it, what's it teaching me? Yeah, what's it teaching me? Why is this showing up for me? Why is it my experience? You just said why twice. Sorry, you're right. Good point. See, I still do it. I'm the coach. See, I still do it. I'm the coach now, bitches. What's the lesson here? What am I trying to learn? But like, what if you don't know? Yeah.

No, but that's, you have to take the time. Most of the time, we live in judgment, we choose judgment, and then we just let it go, and that lives in us. That judgment doesn't go away. So when do you go back to that experience? If you haven't gone through a full experience, you gotta circle back to these things and go, when you get the space and time, that's why we always say, we don't give ourself the space and time. We're on our phones, then we're gonna go turn on the TV, then we're gonna do these things.

Man, that was a lot that just happened on that drive to school today. What happened? What caused me stress? Right? Like, go answer these questions. Like, what was it showing me? Right? Well, for me, particularly, which you have not done.

Just want everyone to hear and hold you accountable. We just call out your show podcast. No, it just I need to be more prepared to before I leave because I am ADHD and I kind of a scramble at them. So if I was be more prepared with like clothes downstairs or toothbrush ready and like Jarrod did promise on Mondays, Wednesdays and Friday, just Monday's because because Wednesdays and Fridays you have until 1120 with nothing in the morning before then correct.

I wouldn't call it nothing. But it's not like you have to get up and have a speech therapist and have to rush him to. Yes. Yes. OK. OK. I just want to clarify that. This is the Call Each Other Out podcast. Welcome. Welcome to the Call Each Other Out podcast. I'm your host. Judgment. That's good. That's good, Dick. She's funny, guys. You think. I don't know if other people think I'm funny. Yeah. But I think it's just. But again, it's also not judging your judgment. That's the hard part. Then we start the loop. Then you get mad at yourself and feel guilty.

Judging yourself for judging the experience and then you just created this never -ending cycle of it. So how do you break the loop you deposit? You observe like that's the thing is like Understand that you are aware of what just happened Like instead of being In it you can be of it, right? We talked about that a lot, right your dad. That's this great saying and we use that language a lot instead of being in it You don't have to be in it. You can make a choice to step out of it and go What just happened?

and you can observe it, right? And that's curious, that of it is curiosity, that in it is judgment. So the why questions, am I in the experience or am I of the experience that I'm observing and understanding what just happened? Yeah, the reason, what I'm thinking about as you're talking is, as you mentioned earlier, that I'm like, I know more, I haven't learned a ton. I'm sorry, we were talking about where we once were and now we are where we are now.

and the learning experience and I don't know if I was able to receive any of that. I was able to superficially take it in like, oh of it, in it, like there'll be in judgment. But now it really is imprinted on me. I very much understand it as part of my DNA. It is something that I am practicing all the time. I'm not perfect at it but I'm definitely practicing it. But it's also who, it's not just who you are, it's who we all are. We're naturally curious people. Like the

about kids all they live in is curious. They don't judge themselves for falling down. They're gonna get up a million times. They don't go, oh my god I fell down in front of people. Oh my god I can't, you know. They never have. We teach them judgment. We teach them. Our world teaches them. As parents we teach them judgment. Like they are the most curious though. Sydney will get into everything in this house because she's so curious. Like how do you cultivate that? So when did that change? When we get by our peers? School. Hey you get an A.

You're being judged for your work, right? You're being judged.

when you go into sports or do a competition, you're being judged for your performance that it's about judgment. I have to perform. And if I don't perform well, I get judged. That judgment is external. So we live in a society that's constantly full of judgment. And then it starts external, but then it automatically becomes, as we said, you get raised to experience this, and then you turn it internal on yourself. The judgment of others turns into your own internal judgment of yourself. We're born with pure play and curiosity.

It's really about how do we get back to playing curiosity more so in our lives like we were as kids like kids are the least judgmental right? It's just incredible. They don't care who you are or what you did. You do something silly or funny you fall over where you would judge yourself, right? They're laughing. They think it's hilarious. I think it's funny. Yeah Until other kids make fun of those things. Yeah, and then oh my god, I'm being judged, right? Maybe I should go in and be like, oh my god.

I am, I am bad. I don't do things well. I am not smart. I didn't get the grade. I'm being judged. You know, it's interesting at that point is then you look at the structure of the person, meaning what are their bones? What are their, what's their operating system? What is their core? What's their design? What's their design? And because I'm thinking many people go through,

Most people go through what you just discussed.

But some people come out less unscathed than others. Yeah, I think some of us are more resilient. I think my, yeah, like probably we're different that way. For sure. Like, but I think it's also your brain works. I'm more of an, I'm more emotional. You're more logical. So I'm more empathic. So I'm going to take a lot of that in. You also got to think too. And now I think about this more. Yeah, there is both nature and nurture, but you're more emotional because you were raised in that kind of way. For sure. And I was more that my protective system based on my childhood was go,

Logical like that was my defense mechanism. You don't think you were born logical I think there's some tendencies and different, you know, our synapses are firing a little bit differently I think there's more but I do think there's a big role and we can get really esoteric of not just this life and the experience you've had here but what we're carrying over from previous experiences previous life which

That's another episode, but I believe in that. So of everything that's happened in this life and previously, we bring to the table, right? But at the end of the day, we're naturally curious. We're trying to learn. That's who we are. If you think about it, humans' natural tendency is to want to grow. And the only way you grow is through curiosity. You can't grow in judgment. There's no growth in judgment. There's only growth in curiosity. And if we really

really get to the core of if everyone can like sit and think about it like how good does it feel to know you're growing? That's all you want.

is to continue to grow and evolve. And to celebrate those very small incremental wins. Like that is huge. We don't give ourselves credit. It's Matthew McConaughey's book, Greenlights. But Greenlights like, so good, like even Greenlights, it's like, instead, like those days when you get like, you just get multiple back to back green lights, like brush that off. You're like, hell yeah. Greenlights, baby. Like, like the little things, right? And those little things, if you continue to do it, then everything starts to seem

like a green light even when you when you would have previously labeled maybe something similar happened the past as a red light or something oh this is bad you're like hmm I can't wait to see what's gonna come of this you know and I think you're asking like that's why I always say any experience where I don't label it good or bad I'm like hmm I'm really looking forward to see how this plays out on what comes from this experience you know present something bad at work

you know, maybe we had a fight, but our fights always lead to amazing conversations. But that's also because of we individually, and that's what I was gonna say after you were done talking, is we have done the work. And so in order to find curiosity and judgment and to even ask yourself the question,

It always stems back to the individual self -discovery work of sitting, like the mindfulness work that you always talk about in regards to sitting in it, hearing your thoughts, hearing how you talk to yourself. That's the baseline. And pertaining to this, what we're talking about tonight is what are your current judgments? We all have them.

So in this practice, if you wanna go at judgment versus curiosity, what from your past are you judging? What are you currently judging? What judgments do you have right now? And judgments, I mean, you can really tie that to a belief, but I would really go, what am I judging right now about myself?

about others, because you can't move forward in curiosity if you don't address the judgment that already exists, because it's already in you. So your tendency is judgment. Your first inclination is to judge. Okay, so then what happens after you, because I think it's a great exercise to write that down. So turn those judgments into what questions? Start there. What did that experience teach me? What does that person teach me? That person that I'm judging to be a bad, asshole, mean. What am I learning from that? Right?

Right. So start to turn those judgments you already have into curiosity. Now you're shifting your lens of the past, which should now start to influence your present and then the future things that you see will now turn to be more curious. You're creating a new habit. It's all habits. Personal growth is new habits. This is the new habit. What I was thinking about is you enter in this new space. It can be scary to leave what you know because you're the scariest thing in the world. Well, you're going to evolve out of friendships. You're going to no longer be interested in certain things.

habits that you once did like you change as a person by opening your perspective up like this and we like comfortable we have to become right it's safe even though the emotions might be really bad emotions that we're living in it's safe I'm used to it I'm comfortable with it I know that I don't know what's on the other side of curiosity I don't know if I do this what's on the other side I can predict

If I stay in judgment what that's gonna be like and that's safe, that's super safe, right? So it's that tendency to wanna be safe at all times. And our emotions that have been cultivated from our childhood is our safety net. So why do people go back to people that have hurt them? Because that's safe. Even though I don't like the experience, it's comfortable. Because I'm safe there. They don't break the cycle. No, because it's safe. And it's the fear of the unknown.

And that's scary.

Really interesting. And I think that exercise is so easy in the sense of it's not like a big to do, but it's something if you're interested in, if you're curious about looking into it. And you gotta be intentional and deliberate instead of picking up your phone, instead of doing those things. It doesn't need to be an hour. Just start with one judgment. What's the first judgment I wanna address? That's like...

But that's a huge thing for people is like, it's all or nothing. I'm going to start this. I'm going to do this thing. And also it's being super intentional because we've talked about this. I have dabbled in personal growth and development for years. I was a yoga teacher years. Like I was talking about, it's in my yoga classes as I was teaching 30 plus people. Like be intentional and be mindful. When I really was like in my own judgment, I was

so stuck. But That's the difference is really deliberately choosing and to be I'm done with this cycle. Thank you for serving me to this part. This point. We talk about spree condo this thing. Yeah. Hey, thank you for what you've given me to this point and getting me here. Like, thanks for protecting me. Right. Thanks for protecting me. Thanks for getting me here. But I don't think I need that anymore. I don't need that anymore. I'm going to try. I'm going to try this new thing. So I appreciate you.

Right so good. So good. I love that I wrote about that in my blog No, I know I know I just thanks for reading but Yes, it is very true. It is thank Thank you all of the things and here's the craziest part the craziest part Don't judge everything that's happened like right?

Well, it's what I say, that the dream can't happen without the mess. Yeah, but it's like, if you judge that you're not there yet, then you can't move on. But like, no, there's a reason I lived in that space before and I was judgmental or I had fears or I was stressed or angry or those things, right? But that served you. You wouldn't have gotten to this point of thinking I might want to do it differently if those experiences don't exist. Again,

Good doesn't exist without bad. You can't, you have to have both for both. Joy doesn't exist without fear. You can't, like if fear doesn't exist, then there is no joy. You have to have both. It's alpha and omega, positive, negative, they both have to exist. So I think that's the key part is we judge these harder emotions, but those allow us to know that the other has to be true too. So get curious.

about what the other side looks like. And don't be upset about where you've come from to get to this point is all for a reason. It was purposeful. Because you wouldn't know that there's a possibility of something else and you wouldn't even ask that question if you didn't go through the other stuff first. It's a great place to end, huh? Yeah, really good. Really, really just...

helpful Good way to think about it. I think when you're in that moment of high stress or you have a meeting with someone that you don't really like or Something's irritating or your kids are doing ever right? It's it's coming into contact with the question of what what is the lesson here for me be of it first And then ask the question pull yourself out of being in it

Yeah. Thank you for this lovely time. Yeah, this has been nice, Nick. What's for dinner tomorrow? We're going out to dinner. Oh, that's right. Date night. Sometimes when we go out to dinner, I'm always like, you would have cooked better. Oh, babe. She has to say that. No, I don't. Also, this is way past my bedtime, but this has been wonderful. I'm very proud of you for being flexible. Yeah, that was a conversation we had before the podcast. Jarrod's rigidity, which we'll talk about another time. But.

I wonder what's be curious about that. Yeah, let's be curious what that's about Well, thank you for listening hanging out with us. So we appreciate it and

Share this if you find it helpful, if you think it would be helpful for somebody else. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast to make sure you're getting our latest episodes. Yeah, make sure to leave us a comment, leave us a note, let us know what you thought, what your takeaways were. Yeah, please do, we'd love to know. And we'd love to share that conversation with you as well. Awesome. Good night. Night.