EP 3: The Birthday Episode: Communication, Expectations, And How You Can Navigate Them In Your Relationship

In this episode we talk about the expectations we place on birthdays, imposed by social media and ourselves and how Nikki’s 36th birthday really went. Together we discuss the importance of communication with our partners when we are feeling stuck or needing help as vulnerability & curiosity are key ingredients in relationships. We also discuss how mishaps in communication cause most of our fights and frustrations. Additionally we share how your emotional being and circumstance of your current state shapes not only your birthday, but everyday and the importance of not reacting in the emotional peak.

EP 3: Transcript

Welcome back to the Over Dinner Podcast.

I am host one, Jarrod Samit, and right beside me is the beautiful birthday girl, Nikki.

Host two.

Host two.

I would say I'm host one.

Host one.

I think whoever starts it gets to be host one for that.

Yeah, it's true.

So, I agree.

Tonight, I gotta be host one.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, happy birthday.

Thanks.

Obviously, I don't think it was the birthday that you wanted, or you wanted to turn 36, for sure.

But more so how the whole weekend, all that played out.

So, I think it's something we can talk about.

I think it can be relatable.

I think there's a lot of dynamics that played out as far as expectations, relationships, feeling two different things.

So, I think there's some good learnings for us that we kind of have been navigating and having discussions about.

But I think also this will relate to probably a good amount of us, because yeah, I think it was a very challenging weekend for both of us, even though it wasn't my birthday.

But it was still challenging.

So.

We know, we promised that we'd share the messiness.

Yeah, this is the messiness, we're in the messiness.

And I posted on my blog today.

The original title of the blog was 36 things I learned in my 35th year.

And as I was driving Jake to therapy today, I realized that it didn't feel authentic to post that, because it's not where I currently was at.

And so I changed the title to this really, this viral thing that's going around on Instagram right now called social media isn't real, here are things that I'm struggling with.

So that's like the title.

So I took that title and I changed it.

I changed it to social media isn't real, this is how I really feel turning 36.

And all day actually after I posted that, I've been wondering what people have been thinking, which is really interesting because it shouldn't matter, right?

But I've been wondering like, do people not think that I had a good birthday?

Do people think that I like, do I sound depressing?

Because I didn't tell anybody besides two very close friends that what happened.

We didn't blow it.

You really did.

We'll talk about, you didn't blow it.

You actually did an amazing job.

He's pretending to cry.

But I lost my train of thought.

But I was just saying that I feel like sometimes social media can be challenging in the sense that what we see, how people are celebrating or being celebrated, it can create a lot of competition to your own experience.

But we really don't know what their experience could have been, what was going on.

Because I almost posted, here are the things I learned without sharing any other details about how my experience actually went.

And I didn't go into great detail about my experience, but as I look at photos of other people who've had a birthday over the last several days, I've been wondering what their experience was.

And birthdays are strange anyways.

There are like a accumulation of a lot of things that happened in one year, and it's like comes down to this one big day.

And you gotta get it right for the people celebrating you, as well as the person who is celebrating, right?

So I've been thinking about that too, right?

Of what are the fantasy versus the reality of things?

I've been in like a duality of thoughts based off of what we experienced over this past weekend.

There's something you also said, it's like not only like what is happening with that person, I think everything we see, we say that's what I also want for my birthday, even though that's might not what you want for your birthday.

But you've had experiences where we've had parties and stuff like that, like even for some time, I felt like it's not actually like, I'd rather it be like mellow and just doing it.

But I think because it's a birthday, there's expectation in what you see and what that's supposed to look like.

And then you do those things not really at what you actually want, and that becomes disappointing.

Along with people posting, like you pretty much almost did today, like, this is great being 36, but what you're feeling behind it is completely different.

I want to say it's completely different.

It's shared experience.

There's two things happening.

But I want to come back to what you just said that I thought was really interesting because we have talked about this before about how we allow these external influences to determine what we think is right, what we think is the call, what we think they know better, they're having a better experience, they have more friends, they are more popular, they have more money.

These people know what they're doing.

And instead of thinking about what do I really want?

And so that idea just right there of, well, this person had a huge birthday party that their spouse planned for them on top of a rooftop, and my partner didn't do that, and it automatically becomes such a fall, such a gap.

And then the person goes, that person must care about them more.

That's the hard part, I think, in a relationship, based on what we talked about previously, is that that's not really good in communication.

And also, like we've said before, like obviously you talk a lot about, in your writings and things like that, the conditioning we've brought up of influence from our parents and other things.

And now we're like, typically before social media, we kind of get away from that and get our own thinking started.

But now it just continues on and it doesn't stop, right?

This doesn't stop that.

If we choose to consume social media, the news and things like that, it's just another continuation of not being able to understand what we want and what makes us happy and what fulfills us.

That's what it is because those people are liked and they seem like they're having the freaking best time in the world.

And why am I not doing that?

I think it even comes down to when people have birthdays and people share pictures of their friends and they get on a story.

You're like, oh, that person has way more friends than me.

They're much more well-liked.

When that's not the case, that could be, but at the same time, I receive some messages today that were not on social media, that had a lot of depth to them, that were very nice words, but that's not showcased on social media, and so it doesn't count.

Isn't that interesting?

Yeah, he's nodding.

No one can see you, but...

Oh, the camera's not rolling.

But I think another thing, why don't we tell them what happened?

Yeah, let's tell the story.

And then we'll go from there.

Great.

I will tell the story, and then you could tell it from your side.

So I had planned a little over a week ago, maybe a little bit longer than that.

A little longer than that.

A little longer than that.

I'm a good planner.

I crush birthdays.

Let's just caveat that.

What happened this year is the first time ever.

This is a strength of mine.

I knew the biggest thing Nikki wants, so I think we looked back.

We probably haven't had a night just us two without the kids in over two years.

Right?

We've never in our house in Georgia had a night by ourselves, sleeping by ourselves, waking up with no children.

I don't think it happened in California either, because it's the pandemic.

Yeah, I don't think so either.

We have never slept in our house by ourselves.

Our house.

We've obviously been on vacation.

But we haven't slept, been ahead a night alone without kids in over two years, and we actually haven't even slept in our home in Georgia by ourselves.

And since we've been here almost two and a half years.

So that's what I wanted to do.

That's what I wanted to give Nikki was to like, we were going to go to dinner.

I was going to drop the kids off at her parents' house at like three o'clock.

We had reservations down in Buckhead at an awesome restaurant.

We wanted to go to together early dinner so we can come home and spend time with each other and then wake up in the morning at any freaking time we wanted.

No responsibility.

Go grab breakfast and just have a nice morning and then go get the kids.

Well, Friday afternoon, so her father called and said he was sick and that he had a cough and wasn't feeling well and didn't think that he was going to be able to watch the kids.

And this was going to be the first time that both our children were going to stay at their house and stay overnight.

So obviously we understood he's not feeling well.

Obviously we don't want our kids to get sick and we want her dad to feel better.

So that nicks the plans.

And this is Friday afternoon.

This is all happening on Saturday.

So everything's canceled.

Now it goes into what do I do now?

And so this is not one of my strengths is when plans break.

I like my routine.

I like things planned out and this happened.

And I was just really spinning, trying to figure something out, not want to be the same thing we always do.

But we have the kids that causes some challenges.

And so Saturday, we ended up going to a new city we hadn't gone to.

But typical things, we went there.

We went to a park, got the kids some french fries.

Then we came home.

One thing I did do, and I'll give myself credit, is there's these ice cream sandwiches.

What are they called?

They're called Nightingale, I think.

Nightingale.

Please sponsor us.

They're really hot on the market.

If you're on social media, it's over at Nightingale, but they only have them at this place called Fresh Market.

And he goes like, we don't need to go.

I'm like, Nikki, we're going to get those ice cream sandwiches.

We got there, and luckily they had some.

So we got some of those.

Summer sold out, though.

Summer sold out.

We come home.

We ordered sushi.

Kind of had a nice dinner from a sushi restaurant.

Had a good dinner.

Watched a movie.

Went back and watched Pirates of the Caribbean.

Obviously wasn't what we expected to be the next day.

An original plan was to go to this festival.

Then I looked it up in the morning, looked like parking was going to be a challenge, and we would have been walking for a while.

That wasn't going to go well.

So then we go, all the other ideas to go to another cool little town, which was actually a really cool town.

We were there for like four hours.

We went to this amazing park.

Got food at a great restaurant.

The kids did amazing.

And then we left there.

Came home.

And then had some hard conversations that night.

What is the Sunday?

Sunday night.

Sunday night.

And then this morning, something I wanted to do for that plan, probably the other things is, it was her birthday morning Monday, so I kind of cleared out my schedule up until a little before 10 o'clock.

So she didn't have to get up.

So she got to sleep.

And I took the kids.

We went.

And the kids and I got our flowers.

We got her a muffin.

We got her coffee.

Drove around a little bit.

Came home.

So when she got to get up, she came down and had those things.

And then I was able to go to work.

Came home this night, tonight.

Made chicken parmesan.

Thought I made that well.

It's pretty dang good.

I think I did really good.

So that, all that happened, there's a lot that happened in between there, but that's how the weekend played out.

Yeah.

And in essence, all of those things are really beautiful gestures and are really nice.

I mean, I've been in this duality of thought, right, of disappointment while also being super grateful, because these are gifts.

These are really important memories that we're creating, going to this park and having our kids eat french fries together.

I mean, it really is special moments.

It can be challenging to see those things as special moments when you have an expectation, right?

Because you are measuring it against the thing that you think should be happening.

Let's talk about that.

We knew Friday afternoon things were going to happen.

Where did you go from there?

And your thought thinking, and what was the expectation?

Obviously, the expectation was what you knew was happening.

So, hey, I got canceled, where did you go to next?

Well, I had said on the phone on Friday when this all happened was just make Saturday night dinner nice.

Just do something nice.

And probably in my head, I was thinking we would have a nice meal.

I don't know, maybe we'd even get dressed.

So then what happened?

You told me just to pick up food that night.

So then here's the other challenge, right?

Is the way that we both communicate is like super different, right?

So here's a perfect example.

I didn't know that you thought that was also happening, right?

But in that moment that I had said, let's just pick something up, there was not another communication like, Oh, I thought we were going to...

There wasn't that, so it was just bypassed.

That's not a fault of your own, but that's where these mishaps happen for people, is one person's thinking one thing, the other person's thinking another thing.

Somebody then voices something, but then something is not set on top of it, and it doesn't get untangled.

So then mishap after mishap after mishap, keep happening.

That was my understanding.

My understanding was like, Hey, I'm going to go out for like an hour, I was going to go get things for dinner, tell you everything I was going to get, but I won't tell you everything I was going to get.

That was my plan to put the kids down, get dressed up, make a nice dinner, have some candles.

It's going to be nice.

So what happened?

That's what I'm still confused about.

I forget because I think we had a little thing.

They were like, just let's pick up food tonight, let's make it easy.

But then is that a sign to say, I want to see how bad you want to do this thing for me, so I need you to say, No, I want to make this dinner for you.

No, I think it's really challenging, especially if you're a person who takes things literally.

I do.

Right.

So I think that is great learning on my part at least.

So me, in my communication of saying, I'm feeling X, Y, and Z, but what happens, I also feel, is that if I say those things, you also don't know where to go.

So then it becomes a silent space.

And then I get frustrated because I feel like I'm not being heard, but you're really just trying to process, which is what we got to later on.

So I think overall, it wasn't a bad weekend.

And as you recapped it, I was able to come back into these different spaces, and I was like, it wasn't a bad weekend.

It wasn't what I had expected.

Right.

And one of the other learnings that we had had is that I, you mentioned it, that on Friday, when the event got kind of pulled out from under us, my expectation was that something else would be in its place.

And I didn't feel that something else was in its place.

But it sounds like from now when I'm listening to it, it does sound like there was something in exchange of that.

Right?

Right.

So I don't know where to go now.

No, but I do understand what you're saying is that, of course, there was things, we did things, but it didn't feel like something different than we would have done.

Yes, we went to maybe a different city than we would have gone to before, but it's what we typically do on a weekend, is we go take the kids out somewhere, be outside for a little bit, might grab some food.

We haven't done that a little bit, I feel like, but might grab some food, come home, get the kids food, either order out or make dinner.

Right?

So it didn't feel different.

And I think that's what you're getting at is that it was just another weekend that my birthday happened to fall on versus it feeling like it was a different weekend or something different than it was.

Right?

And I think in my own processing, which is, you know, as we mentioned previously, it takes me time.

And I think I come, I just, two things came up for me.

I have a hard time, because I like to make plans in advance.

And this is the first time, literally like something like this around your birthday.

I feel like any event has really happened.

And when I got my, I didn't, what Nikki would have liked is me communicate that I was lost, right?

And to say, hey, I'm lost.

I really don't know what to do.

I really like to know, come Sunday, let's say it's Monday, coming into Monday, what would you like?

Obviously our plans got canceled, what would you like to do, right?

But for me, I think saying that is going to cause things that you're frustrated I can't figure it out.

So I just, I'm a people pleaser again.

So I just like, I'm going to figure this out and get it done, and then I didn't.

And it just fell flat and was what it was.

So that made it a little bit more frustrating, I think, because because I didn't communicate, you expected I had to figure it out, right?

I didn't communicate, so you're just like, oh, I'll figure it out.

And obviously I figured out something, but you know what I mean?

So I think that was the part where I didn't want to communicate that I was unsure of where to go or what to do, because I didn't want you to be disappointed in that.

And then your expectation, if I'm not communicating, I guess he's got a plan to figure it out, and then it doesn't meet that expectation.

And I think that's where that separation happened.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

So I can imagine that this happens a lot in relationships, especially I think not just because you're a people pleaser and things like that.

I think it's a male trait a lot.

I mean, I think it can be both genders in the sense that they may struggle to communicate, especially when they are feeling overwhelmed or lost, and they're not really sure what to do.

And of course, depending on the way they were raised and how they feel asking for help, what that symbolizes.

But I think for men, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like asking for help as a man is a weak thing to do.

Or needing to collaborate or needing something, you're not, you can't figure it out.

I think, and I don't want to speak for all men, but I think also too, because I'm supposed to take care of you.

I'm supposed to.

So if I don't, on a special day for you, and I can't figure out how to take care of you and show your appreciation, and I need your help to help me help you or to appreciate you, I think it takes it to another level of like, I can't ask her.

This is my responsibility.

She's my wife, and I take care of her, and so I have to figure this out.

So I think that's even at another level, versus it was something else that we're trying to figure out in another situation, but this was about you.

So I could ask help for you in some other things, but I think specifically asking help about how I can help you on your birthday.

There's other ways I could ask how to help you, but specifically it was about your birthday and figuring out plans for your birthday.

Especially, I think more so for me, because this is what I feel I'm good at.

So the fact that I'm like, I don't know what to do, this isn't normal for me.

I have to be able to figure this out.

And I like to figure things out, and I don't want to disappoint you.

But we've talked about this before, a lot of times when I don't communicate these things, I actually disappoint more.

Because if I'm not communicating, you expect to have it done or figured out.

Other things, right?

Well, I think to that is that when someone's not saying whatever's going on, the assumption is that they've got it or...

But the thing is, at least for me, I can read through that stuff.

So I think that's where part of my unease comes from, is I know that he doesn't know what he's doing right now.

But he's acting like he does, and I also don't want to put my foot in my mouth because there have been multiple times where I've jumped on that, only to find out that...

Like our proposal.

I was just about to say that.

Like our proposal.

We've been together a while.

I moved down to San Diego for a year.

The night before, and I'm like, well, what's happening tomorrow?

Literally, literally that.

That's the fun stuff.

Or even my birthday last year.

Well, I don't know.

Did that happen last year?

Probably.

It doesn't matter.

Oh, thank you.

But I just, I feel that there's so many lessons in here about expectations, about birthdays, about communication, about just what we see and what we feel.

There's just so many pieces of it, and I want to validate people's experiences with their birthdays and also provide solidarity if it didn't feel.

And also, I don't know.

I just want, what do you think?

Thank you for asking.

I also think people get a lot, also it goes the other way, where people get these extravagant things down from them and they don't feel good or feel appreciated too.

So again, God, it never comes back to communication.

It's not necessarily communication about what I want specifically for my birthday.

It's like what you said.

I heard you over the last six months.

You didn't need something fancy or go away or anything like that.

I have been paying attention and listening, and I was like the best gift I can give her is a night at home with no kids and waking up with that.

So I think it's also...

And again, I think we put this pressure on this one day to show we have to show appreciation if it doesn't live up to what I expected or what the person...

So you're saying that I get another day?

No, but I want to appreciate you, but that's what I'm trying to say.

Why does it just have to be your birthday?

So I don't get to get appreciated for a year about me for a year?

I would love spontaneous things.

No, for sure.

And I think we do sometimes do that, right?

And I want to be able to do that, but I think this pressure that we put on, it's my birthday, so I have to, even for yourself, you probably put expectations on yourself of what you want to feel like.

I'm supposed to feel joy and happiness and all these things.

But there's going to be some real shit going on in your life.

Yeah.

That makes it really hard.

It doesn't just stop for your birthday.

Right, and then the person, significant other or family member or whatever, who's like, man, I got to get this, man, that's both sides, a lot of pressure to get this right.

And yes, we should celebrate things.

Well, in my blog today, I talked about where you are currently in your life, both in your emotional state that you're literally in in that moment or have been in that time period, along with your life circumstances.

And so that shapes your perception of your birthday.

Yeah.

And the thing is...

It's your perception of every day.

Of every day, but specifically this milestone, because you go, okay, I'm now another year older, I'm edging closer to mortality, right?

And am I where I thought I would be?

Am I accomplishing the things that I thought?

And whatever state you're in is how you're gonna answer those questions too, right?

Yeah.

Like you could not be in a good state or other things go on in your life, and you're gonna judge where you are in your life, and you're gonna look at this year, I'm like, I did nothing this year, right?

So it plays into so many things.

Well, I think that's what plays into so many things.

That's where you are.

Yeah.

So my therapist taught me, because something that I do is react in the peak, rather than having the emotional cycle go through and then have process and be able to communicate how I accurately feel.

So something that I'm more of a, and that does make sense in terms of you processing and me being more of a reactionary.

But I have noticed that when I react in the peak, things change and I feel different.

And it is a fluid experience.

So I'll give you a perfect example.

We went to California last year.

We went for a wedding, and then we ended up tacking on like a two week, 14 day vacation.

Let's not call it a vacation.

We had two kids traveling across California.

It was not a vacation.

It was rough, but it was great.

But it was rough.

So we first got there.

First getting there was a nightmare, and I won't go into all the logistics, but it was Labor Day.

No, it was Memorial Day weekend, and we will never do that again.

So there was a lot of logistical challenges, and I don't do well without having a space to recharge.

And we went right into being with family and staying with family, and this was the first time a lot of family was being around Jake.

They hadn't experienced being around Jake, and I felt so on high alert, and I was a mess.

I was crying all the time.

I was stressed out.

I was worried and feeling just overwhelmed.

I wanted to leave, and I ended up having a therapy appointment with my therapist while we were there, and she was talking to me about this peak that I was currently in, and I will come down from this peak, and that if I feel the same way once I've come down from the peak, then I can move on that.

But instead, it typically changes to the whitewash, and even in a relationship, for example, the heightened emotions that we get to in the middle of a fight tend to dissipate.

They will.

Right.

But we, me, I react in the heightened state.

And I always talk about this, the things I've written or in conversations and stuff, is just at that state, we're not really clear.

We're not rational.

We're very subjective versus objective about the situation.

So it's hard to see really clearly, right?

Because that flood of emotion is your lens and is the way you're thinking, and whatever is coming out is coming out, right?

And we say things in that state alone that we don't actually mean because we're in that state, right?

And we say things that we don't, because also our processing is very different.

So we may feel that we're not being heard by our partner.

Because they receive and process information differently.

No, and as a learner, I take time, right?

And when you, early in our relationship, it was he's not saying anything back, right?

Because I didn't know what to say.

I was kind of frozen.

Like I got nothing.

I got nothing.

I got to go process it.

Because I do, yeah, I was feeling anxious and all those things.

So I am that person that needs to come down from that to understand what just happened, right?

Well, come back to it.

Sorry, I didn't mean to totally derail you, but come back to what you were saying about processing.

I don't remember.

Processing in the peak of it?

Yeah, in the peak.

We say things that we don't mean in the peak of it.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, because it's just coming out.

So we're going to be able to answer this very differently, right?

Because if I was to say, if someone was to be like, what do I do?

How do I not react?

It's going to be a really different response than you saying what to do, right?

So how would you say something from someone who does react, who wants to get into it and speak it, what have you, either from your therapist or things that you, what do you need, what have you learned, what have you implemented, what's worked?

Well, this is still absolutely a work in progress.

I'm really trying to get better.

Therapy has absolutely helped us in terms of our communication of understanding what you need in those moments, so that way I can be more along those lines.

Well, let's just talk about you, not about our relationship, but more...

What do I do?

What do you do?

Right.

So what writing allows me to do is get the words out of my head, but at least they're not being spit at you.

But sometimes it doesn't feel like enough that I need to get a reinforcement back.

I need to have that back and forth.

When you say reinforcement, is that a response?

I want to solve the problem.

I want it done.

I don't want to be sitting with it because I don't like sitting with any confrontation, with anyone.

That stuff are things that I obsess over, and I can't let go, and they also increase my anxiety.

If things are not, I hate to say it, perfect.

And so I feel a lot of discourse.

Is it discourse or discord?

Discourse?

I feel unease.

Please leave comments on it.

Discourse or discord?

I feel really unease.

So here's my question, do you believe everything has a resolution?

There's a way to know what's resolute.

I think that there is a solution slash acceptance.

So I don't think everything is going to be solved.

So in that case, you have to find acceptance in that, which is very challenging to do.

Because acceptance is agreeing either we don't have to agree and we can have differences, and that person's not coming to my side, or vice versa.

It's accepting that, hey, this is my opinion, and this is yours, and we have to be okay with that.

That's hard.

We haven't talked about the mess.

I told the story, but three separate occasions within that flow of the weekend were fights, were...

I was disappointed.

Disappointed that led to conversations.

And I want to...

I'm feeling judged.

I'm judging myself.

No one's judging you.

Yes, because I want to be clear that it wasn't the actions that you took...

The fights had nothing to do with the actions.

They had to do with the lack of communication, right?

On just plans overall or that...

You knew I wasn't...

didn't really know what to do, and we ended up doing similar things.

So it was the lack of communication, winging it, trying to do things on the fly, right?

It was, but it was.

You tried so hard.

I tried.

And I thought through it, but...

I knew this isn't what I was getting to, but I was like, well, I guess we're going to this place, and then I guess we're going to this place.

You know, I think my problem was, I wanted it to equal what I had already planned, but it was impossible, because nothing could equal that, right?

Nothing could.

I didn't think just little small things or things I could do here, like, Hey, Nick, why don't you go out for a few hours and do something nice for yourself, and I'll pull it, like, didn't even think about that, right?

So I think that was the thing was that when you were disappointed and there was a lack of communication on my end, right?

That's what stuff stemmed from.

And also, like, yes, there was a point where because I didn't communicate, you had expectations, right?

You had an expectation because I was a peer that he's got it figured out, right?

And then when you realize he really doesn't have it figured out, he's just trying to figure it out and fly, I think that got frustrating.

And within that time period, there was mishaps of communication.

So, for example, when you mentioned that you had planned something else, I then was thinking it was happening that day, and then nothing happened that day, and I was sitting there waiting for that to happen.

And when it didn't happen, yeah.

And so once he told me that it was happening tomorrow on your actual birthday, it's like, oh, okay, great.

Thank you.

But then also, I've been sitting around waiting where I could have done something for myself.

So again, it's just communication.

It's about communication.

At the end of the day, it's all about communication.

And I think because it's the birthday, and again, back to the beginning when we talked about the expectation and all those things, that's what made it get to the point where it got to, because I have this expectation, it's my birthday, so even if some plans didn't get canceled, you would expect, oh, he's gonna figure something else out, especially because he's not communicating that he can't figure anything out, he's gonna figure something out.

Because my history is I do figure, I do good things.

So everything was pointing to that, and what didn't happen is like, what happened?

And I think that's what we got to is like, I blew it, and I'll say that.

I tried my best, but I didn't, but trying my best, I should have communicated more, because I think you would have ended up having a better experience with me communicating that I was lost and stuck.

And that, yes, you might have been upset that I couldn't just figure it out for a little bit, but at least you've probably gotten to do things that would have made you feel like you got what you needed this weekend.

Right?

Yeah, 100%.

That's it.

Like you're telling me I probably in the moment, we'll acknowledge I probably would have been frustrated.

I would have gotten like gone to the pedicure or done these different things.

I got to come back and felt refreshed.

Exactly.

And so it's again, it's not the actions.

It's not the things that could have happened.

It is the communication that is very helpful.

And even when I came down to the gifts, like let's talk about that part because that was another miss, but it wasn't that he hadn't given me a gift.

It was that it had come in different forms, but I didn't realize.

And I felt very conflicted because of how much daily effort you put in to our relationship and our family and feeling like I want something more, felt very self-centered and very uncomfortable.

At the same time, it's the birthday, right?

It's the day I'm supposed to be special.

You're special every day, honey.

The gift you were gonna give it to me this weekend, of sleeping in.

But if we're talking from a monetary standpoint, I'd literally ask the dinner, I was so awkward, and this is over our chicken parm, which was a gift itself.

That's monetary value.

Okay, but I was like, did you...

I've been feeling very brushed over this weekend.

Did you also brush up?

Where's my diamond?

You didn't go to Nordy and just pick something up because you blew the rest of the weekend?

Is that what you're thinking?

I was thinking, I did expect something tonight.

Because I wasn't here in the morning, so I was like, maybe he wants to give it to me at dinner.

Well, I got you wonderful gifts in the morning.

What, a coffee and a muffin?

And flowers.

Is that different than any other day?

Yes, every other day.

No, but like, come on.

I mean, I'm being serious.

You're being serious, so you think it is different.

Do you wake up every morning?

Have you gotten me coffee before?

Yes.

Have you brought home donuts or muffins or treats before?

Yes.

I brought home flowers.

Yes, and you typically give me the most beautiful bouquets.

Well, the kids picked these one out.

I know.

I could tell.

Which is great.

I'm kidding.

No, I love them.

I'm looking at them.

They're beautiful.

They are beautiful.

Is it Sydney?

Jake didn't care.

Oh.

So what does Sydney do?

Diss?

Diss.

Which, what are the two options?

There was a bunch of options.

I just told her to look at all the options.

Anyways, so let's rewind this about, so that was also part of this was like, and he said, well, because we've gone to the mall weekend before because our friends are hosting a podcast launch party for us this upcoming Friday.

And they, it's also slash a birthday celebration for me.

And Jarrod had thought that us going, which we never go to the mall together by ourselves ever was that was the gift, not going to the mall together, but-

How about that horrible?

But-

Purchasing an outfit was her gift.

And I thought we had talked about that and said, I said, happy birthday, I believe, when we checked out.

So to me, there was, I guess, communication.

No, you said, happy birthday, right?

I remember you saying that.

In my mind, I was thinking it was for the event.

This is one of one gift.

There's more to come.

But I was like, okay, this is for the party.

But still I said, happy birthday.

Yes, I understand.

Yes.

All I'm trying to get to, I'm not saying that I'm right or you're wrong.

That's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is about communication, how we receive information.

Yes, how my brain was not picking up that you were saying, this is your birthday present.

And that's what you were saying to me.

So all I'm talking about is communication in general of how we can be better communicators to each other.

So in that moment, I could have also, because I didn't hear it.

So I could have also said, I could have also said, is this my birthday present?

And you could have said, yeah, and I've been like, now I know.

So there's things that I could also have done in regards to communication, understanding that you speak a certain way and have your own way of speaking.

So how do, okay, that's great.

How do people center around that?

Like knowing that we communicate differently, what does that look like?

It's asking more questions.

So it's being curious, right?

And it's asking more questions and being uncomfortable.

So for example, we would never have gotten here.

We have never gotten all the way here unless I had not asked you about the gift tonight.

And I was fucking uncomfortable because I was like, let this go, let this go.

This is not a big deal.

This is so stupid.

Let it go.

And I was like, I can't let this go.

I have to ask.

And by asking, I now know, I now know, I now know that there was a backyard.

The rest of the night, you would have made assumptions.

Yes.

Got more pissed off at me.

I would have been like, what the heck is going on?

And it would have just kept going.

And it would have blown up.

And it would have blown up maybe tomorrow.

No, probably tonight.

And then I wouldn't have gotten to sleep.

Well, that's the thing, right?

It would have happened at like finally at midnight when you're like sleeping and I just can't take it anymore.

And I'm not saying so that's why having uncomfortable conversations are questions.

They speaking where you're what you're currently feeling is so important because even though that moment is uncomfortable, it unlocks a whole new pathway for your relationship.

And I think it's I think it's what you're really saying is when to know when to communicate is you have that feeling is don't push that away.

It's like when you have that awkwardness or uncomfortableness or something you want to say, you got to say it because also the to that is asking like, what is the intention behind asking this?

So something that you do very well is the processing.

So when you this is challenging for me because in one part, I'm like, say what you feel say what they was on your mind at the same time as we've also discussed in this time, our episode tonight is that that might not always be accurate.

True.

But isn't it's not accurate of what maybe what the person did, how you feel is accurate.

True.

Typically how you feel is going to be accurate, right?

But it doesn't also mean that that's the intention of the other person or the thing they did today.

You know what I mean?

Of what you may be asked about.

And I think it's important.

You're not going to always be able to do this because when those emotions get there, I do think it's like, yes, be aware of it, but you do need to say something.

I'm not the best at is you do need to say something and something you're good at.

And sometimes you do is like, hey, I want to say something.

I'm feeling uncomfortable right now, right?

That obviously puts a little thing up, but it also guards me down a little bit because you're kind of asking permission and sharing that with me.

So I am expecting it versus just coming at me.

So I think I think there's a preface like, hey, are you open to hearing like I'm feeling uncomfortable about something you did and I want to share that, right?

I would take out something that you did because that does feel like attacking language.

I think I would say something more along staying with the eye.

So like, I would love to share something that I'm feeling uncomfortable about that happened earlier.

Yeah, so that's something you because someone can't make you feel something.

But also what you just said is that that other person may have not had that intention.

So and we can't we need to stay with the eye because your feelings about it may be completely different than the way I can.

And again, I believe this like no one can make you feel something like I can't make you feel something.

Well, I felt disappointed this weekend.

So is that on me?

I'm asking a very serious eye.

Yes, I think.

Okay, so it is because if you did not have an expectation, those feelings will not arose, right?

If you don't have that expectation, okay, then you can't be disappointed.

I'm not saying you don't have any expectation, but I'm saying if what your expectation was by setting that, if whatever didn't reach that, you would have been disappointed.

Yeah.

Right?

Mm-hmm.

Do you agree?

Yeah.

I'm just thinking about like, just what that looks like.

These feelings come within, right?

There's external circumstances, right?

That can influence them, but no one can, like, I can't go inside you and say, this second feel happy, this second feel angry, right?

Like there's thinking and perceiving and meaning that you're putting together, right?

When you connect that meaning to an emotion or to a thing, that's where these feelings come from.

There is choice.

Yeah.

In my opinion.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think for someone as logical and literal as you, being able to actually stop and think about that is a very different experience than for me, right?

Because I'm emotionally based.

So it comes in and it becomes this whole story.

It becomes a whole emotional experience.

Well, you're able to like, oh man, this is hitting me.

Emotions are tied to past experiences, right?

So when those emotions hit you, it's not just about that.

Then you start to connect, because that emotion is attached to other memories.

So then it becomes this thing, because it's attached to all these other memories, where that surfaces all that.

And that's why sometimes when we have Aaron fights or being a partner, we're bringing up other things, because that emotion is when you felt then, and now it's surfacing back.

So you're attaching that back to that.

I just thought about that.

Something I just thought that was interesting.

You want to keep those now?

No, no, I'm just saying, but memories are tied to emotions.

So naturally, when those emotions resurface, those memories are going to come back with that emotion.

And that's why we go, because it seems like you're just hitting somebody with stuff.

Like, why are we going in there?

It's like, well, that's what's on my mind, because I'm relating this experience to that experience.

So I'm going to bring it up.

Right?

Yes, that's what's what's so it's also understanding.

That's why I think I'm processing when you are an emotional motions first, that processing is probably really important to understand, separate the emotion from the experience and understand what's going on.

And I was just thinking about things I could do to like help me pause and process.

And one of those things I was thinking about was writing or going to exercise, like going to do different things to like help me get out of my way.

But the thing that then I got to was, okay, let's say that I've gone untangled, and I'm upstairs, and I do my writing, and I come downstairs, and then I begin to voice my feelings in a really, like let's say, delicate, appropriate manner, and I don't get back what I would need for my partner.

It restarts the clock.

It restarts the process.

And you can feel one-sided.

Again, that's an expectation that your partner has to do something for you to feel better.

Okay, so as maybe we wrap up here, my last thought that I had about this day, and you brought it up, I was at when we were at Over Dinner, I was thinking about this of what is my part in this, right?

So what are what could I have done differently?

What is his responsibility in this?

And what is mine?

And I could have also said, I'm leaving to go get my nails done.

I'm leaving to go walk around, Jarrod, do you have plans set up for the day, right?

There was an expectation that you would take care of it because it was my thing.

I also had a part in these things.

And so I'm curious what your perspective is in like, what is...

Maybe I went off track.

I was thinking about, what was the last thing you said?

That the perception of, if my partner has to respond a certain way, that if I come down, I have emotionally figured out and processed and then speaking that, but I don't get the response I want.

Okay, so then my question is, is like, does this all come down to the actual birthday person?

Like, not the...

It always comes down to the individual, always.

So it's my fault.

Yes, totally.

But it's also my fault what I feel the way I feel, which is sadness, frustration, right?

That's, I feel that way because of things that I didn't, like I put that on myself just as much as you put this expectation of what it should be like, that didn't happen.

So we, we both, you didn't make me feel this way.

I didn't make you feel that way.

We put parameters and boundary and things in place that something external again, if we attach the way we think we need to feel because of something external happening, gonna be disappointed a lot, right?

It's never gonna work out that way.

And if it does that one time, that can't become the expectation because that's just so much pressure on everything working out beautifully in the way it was supposed to.

Like for me, right?

And so I felt sadness and stuff, not because of the way you're responding, right?

It was because of choices that I made, I didn't choose to communicate, and I could have done a better job of articulating where I was.

That's what made me feel, you know, I brought that on myself because of my expectations I have of myself, right?

Or that I'm disappointed in how I handled the situation.

Yeah.

So, but I do think the big thing here, and just to relate to, you know, as the person who's emotional and speaks very directly when something happens, I think someone that's more like me, what I've learned is like just not saying anything and just saying, okay, and what I have done in the past is just repeat what the person says because it makes you sound like you're listening is to communicate.

Like I sometimes say, I'm not going to be able to give you what you need right now.

I do need time to process, right?

And I will always come back.

And how I do it, I always come back once I'm able to.

And it's typically we have a good conversation and I can go to the depths that I want to get to for myself, but also that helps us communicate better.

So I think it's a real thing.

That's I think why we balance each other is because you've probably learned to process a little bit more how beneficial that is.

I've learned I need to like feel something and say it.

If I'm clear, I need to say it.

And there are moments where I just like I feel something and I need to say it.

You know what I mean?

So yeah, birthday story all the way through communication.

I think that's just what we're really trying to emphasize on anything is your needs and communication, but also understanding your partner's style and how they communicate, how they process, right?

Right.

So do you want to tell them what we're doing?

For what?

Creating for them.

What are we creating for them, Nikki?

For their partners.

You tell them.

You tell them.

You tell them.

They're going to want to hear from you.

Well, we're creating a way for you to help unpack, understand, and communicate better with your partner.

Yeah.

Think of it as like a user manual.

Yeah, I think.

A guide book.

Yeah, I think just something like, what are things that we think we know or should know about our partners, but we really don't know, right?

I think we want to build out just some set of questions that each of you answer.

And it's like, yeah, a user manual, a relationship manual, just so how I like to communicate, how I like to be loved, right?

All these little things that I don't have to guess or wonder anymore, or think I know.

And we can just be really clear with each other and know each other's needs and more importantly, how they process and how they handle certain situations.

What kind of presents they want.

And what presents they want, right?

Didn't we used to do that before?

Didn't we used to go on to tag things on Pinterest or something like that?

Diamond rings.

No, I think, was that just for that?

I thought there was other things.

We used to have a list of each other that I can pick things up.

We used to do that well.

We would have a running list, and then we could just look at it and pick something up.

Let's do that again.

And you wouldn't know which one's happening or gift you're getting, but you know it's like you're getting something you want.

I think things change in two ways.

One, when you become a parent, and two, when you become an adult.

So as you become an adult, the gifts become different.

For example, we are starting our backyard renovation next month.

Happy birthday!

So I'm not getting an immediate present.

I'm getting the stage one of our backyard renovation that I have been begging for.

I've been begging for it for two and a half years.

I mean, it was a dream for a while, and then it became a necessity kind of thing, feeling.

So anyways, as you age, we need a new dishwasher or different things come up, and so it becomes more mundane.

Your birthday becomes more mundane as you get older, except when you hit the milestone birthdays, 40s, 50s.

But then I wonder too, but then the interesting part is that, because we don't have all these adult responsibilities, there's probably more fun things or cool things you're getting.

So then maybe it's more like, yeah, there should be a time where it is a little more special.

Wait, say that again?

Because you're in your 20s and stuff like that, you're probably buying cool things and doing cool things a lot more.

Yes, you are.

Right?

And then when you get into adulthood, it's like the dishwasher and the backyard and stuff for our kids.

Yeah, but maybe it is more important that there is a little more special day.

I don't know, maybe.

I think maybe we should do that.

Maybe that's just something we do for each other.

Yeah.

Which I tried really hard.

I just want her to remember.

I keep telling her, just remember that first thing that I planned.

So are you re-planning that?

Sure.

Oh, man.

Relying on other people, that's also hard as parents too.

Yeah, because that just messes up all of the expectations.

Like tomorrow, I had to cancel my day.

Not because I wanted to, but my dad's not feeling well.

That's the last thing I'd want to do is throw Sydney out.

She can handle it.

She can handle it or he can handle it?

She's a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

All right, we're taking up too much of your time.

Are we?

So to wrap up, biggest learnings for you was what?

Biggest learnings for me?

In this whole situation?

Yeah.

Communicate, uncertainty, even when there is a, you know it probably won't go the way you want it to, but if you can think more broadly, if I did communicate that, it wouldn't have gotten to where it got to.

So I think it's, if I'm uncomfortable, I need to speak that.

I think we should in general, if we are uncomfortable with the situation or how things played out or anything, pulling it in is, it's gonna come back later, there's no doubt about it.

It'll come up in another situation, especially with your significant other.

It will surface again.

And you're gonna, we've always said this, you're gonna keep building the story, and the story is gonna get way more out there than it really is, and then you'll play that story in your head and start to see other things that align to that story, and then it just, yeah.

If you feel it, it's something that's irking you, trust that, and when you speak it, like again, start with I.

I'm feeling a certain way, I just about a situation, and I wanna communicate that with you.

Hopefully there's openness there.

Yeah, what about you, top learning?

Don't have expectations.

No, I was about to say something silly, but I can't say it.

Top learning for me.

Top thing you wanna take away or top learning for you?

It's probably communication too.

Being a better active listener, so understanding you more of how you communicate.

So reading between the lines, growing in my emotional intelligence.

So that's a form of communication.

You did a great job of hearing what I needed, and was gonna set that whole thing up.

And then also about how I communicated.

I would say that I sat in a pity party for a couple days, instead of sitting in the 36-year-old person that I actually am, which is to ask clarifying questions, figure out a plan, right?

And go from there, right?

I think that I let, as you said really eloquently, I thought that was really profound, where our emotions, our memories are tied to our emotions, and so it's not just this one experience, because as we've talked about, it wasn't that bad, but it's connected to everything else, so it comes with it.

So that's something I...

The emotions of not feeling appreciated in other circumstances.

Exactly, exactly.

It all comes out.

So that's probably a big learning for me too, is separating this moment is not that moment.

This moment is this moment, right?

And these are circumstances that have come up in this moment.

Singling it out rather than combining it all.

And then, so it's communication, singling out experiences, and definitely lowering expectations, not of other people, but of, this is not other people that I'm trying to lower my expectations about.

It's that, maybe it's not lowering expectations, maybe it's actually recognizing that all life is, is a bunch of pivots.

And knowing a pivot could happen, and how do I react to the pivot?

What actions can I take when a pivot happens?

Also not depending on other people.

And being curious when a pivot happens, versus judgmental.

Right.

Because if we can look at a lot of pivots from our past, if I didn't have that pivot, I wouldn't be where I am today.

That road didn't split.

But literally this conversation.

Yeah, it doesn't happen.

It would not have happened without my dad getting sick, the plans canceling, having to go through the experience that we went through.

Another great experience.

Jake, the song Austin by Dacia, it's just playing in the background, and then Jake goes and sits at the piano and starts playing the song.

We would not have had Jake that day.

He would not have been sitting in our kitchen hearing that song.

So there's always going to be those things.

And I think is when things don't work out the way they're supposed to, that's actually what's supposed to happen.

Yeah, something else is going to too.

Yeah, but that was supposed to happen because something else is there if you're open.

If you're open.

And that's what I also wrote about in the blog.

There's signs all the time, but it depends on how you're looking at it, is how you're going to see it.

All right, well, Nikki, happy birthday.

Thank you.

I hope this was the great close to your birthday.

It was a great close.

I love you.

I'm grateful for you.

And you're very much appreciated.